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Old Geezer
27-02-13, 20:37
My great Grandfather John Nelson Ash was born in 1847 in Westminster the son of George Lane Ash and Mary Ann Meason.
John married Harriett S Rees in Lambeth in 1871.
He died aged 33 in 1880.
I have what I believe to be his whereabouts via the census' in 1851, 61 and 71.
John and Harriet had three offspring
Marry Frances Susan in 1881
Bertha Elizabeth in 1873
Alice in 1875
Harriett Elizabeth in 1877

So far all is good except after his death, two of his daughters entered on their wedding certificates that their father was a deceased Publican.
He died in islington and I cannot find him as a publican by Google or a site that shows publicans for London at the time.
There is a John Ash with a wife Harriet who are publicans in Brick Lane but they are in situ after his death.
Any ideas where to look for another pub?

I have Ancestry but I don't yet have his death certificate.
By the way, I have been a member and came over from the dark side when the site first started but haven't looked at my tree for a few years and looked for you when I restarted and wow what a site you have now and what a community... your original intention.
Roger (Old Geezer) Whybrew

Old Geezer
27-02-13, 20:38
Woops. They had four offspring!

Elaine ..Spain
27-02-13, 21:06
Welcome back Roger! Yes we certainly have grown since the early days.

Doesn't help that John dies before the 1881 census!
Do you have his marriage certificate, if so what occupation does he give on that?

Elaine ..Spain
27-02-13, 21:08
Ignore that last question! Just found his marriage certificate on Ancestry - occupation was a Wax Candle maker. Bit different to a publican.

Elaine ..Spain
27-02-13, 21:35
Not having much luck with this!
The John Ash (publican) you have found post 1881, is he related to your John Nelson Ash in any way?

vera2013
27-02-13, 23:00
Think this maybe a second Marriage for Harriett Susan but unfortunately he is a Plasterer

Vhttp://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=1623&iid=31280_189952-00489&fn=Harriett+Susan&ln=Ash&st=r&ssrc=&pid=5224190

EDIT http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=LMAmarriages&h=5224190&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=7572

Vera

AntonyM
28-02-13, 10:00
Roger

Assuming he isn't shown as a publican on any of the census you have seen - then it is perhaps likely he had that occupation after 1871 (if the daughters were correct). A copy of his death certificate from 1880 , and birth certificates for his children , will give you specific addresses that you can then look up in the street directories of the time.

There are some on this site - http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/index.asp (I notice they have a Post Office directory for Middlesex in 1874) and the National Archives have a very good collection for London.

JudithM
28-02-13, 10:48
Roger

Assuming he isn't shown as a publican on any of the census you have seen - then it is perhaps likely he had that occupation after 1871 (if the daughters were correct). A copy of his death certificate from 1880 , and birth certificates for his children , will give you specific addresses that you can then look up in the street directories of the time.

There are some on this site - http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/index.asp (I notice they have a Post Office directory for Middlesex in 1874) and the National Archives have a very good collection for London.

Birth certificates for the children will also give his occupation at intervals during the 1870s. If he doesn't show as publican in any of these I would guess his daughters or their mum "bigged him up" when asked for his details.

Old Geezer
28-02-13, 10:52
Hi again Elaine. I have problems going backwards for John. His father Was George Lane Ash and I can get nothing for him. John has a brother who seems to be living with him as an adult with one census describing him as paralysed from birth.
John's wife goes on to marry again and produce more offspring. The bit that gets to me most is the Publican occupation. I tried to match up the children of John Nelson Ash with John Ash the publican of Brick Lane but each time they go back to my man and not the other who has a family of his own with different names. Thanks for the help so far... just like the old days.
I have moved house and now live in rural South Somerset just near the Devon and Dorset borders and it was such a surprise to find that a couple of forebears were born just down the road. I have been able to look in the their local churches too and found where they lived. Unfortunately my eyesight has started to deteriorate and most of my research is back on the 'puter with the zoom working overtime. I look forward to any comments on my John and his elusive family.

Janet in Yorkshire
28-02-13, 12:51
Perhaps they had an outdoor beerhouse, which was later "bigged up" to be a pub?
I wonder if there are any records of the applications for liquor licenses? - I believe beer house keepers had to have one, as well as publicans & hoteliers.

Jay