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  • Nash and Penny in USA

    Nellie May Nash was born in 1885 in Horspath, Oxfordshire, In 1905, aged 20,now a school teacher, she travels to New York (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...pid=4032007645) On the form she states that her passage has been paid for by her uncle, and she will be travelling on to San Diego to stay with this uncle, W.I. Penny.

    Well this surprised me to say the least. Uncle is William Isaac Penny, last seen in the 1891 census living with wife Laurina in London. He is currently working as an insurance agent, but had previously been a photographic clerk. http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...=&pid=20370335

    Laurina is next seen in 1901 back in Oxford with her daughter, saying she is a widow. Therefore I had assumed that William died sometime between 1891 and 1901 but obviously not!

    So can anyone find anything more on either William Isaac, or Nellie May. Presumably his family must have known he was alive if she went out to him. Considering that Williams brother was one of the biggest con-artists around, was shipped off to Australia where he was in and out of jail for 60 years, but managed nevertheless to marry 7 times, at least 5 of them bigamously, I do feel a bit sorry for his parents!

    Linda
    Linda


    My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

  • #2
    Ok, more and more confused - I've now found an entry for the birth of Amy Winnifred Penny, parents William Isaac Penny and Lorena Emily nee Hughes on 18 mar 1889 - in Toronto Canada!!

    Aaagh!! When did Canada come into it? And where did Amy go?
    Last edited by ozgirl; 10-02-13, 18:25.
    Linda


    My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

    Comment


    • #3
      Just to add to the confusion, I found that Laurina Emily Penny dying at 16 Park Road, Crowes, Isle of Wight 7th August 1931 leaving 980 pounds and 11 pennys to her daughter Ivy Laurina Penny a spinster probate was granted to Ivy on 1st October 1931. Its ays she is a widow.lizzy

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks Liz - I had found daughter Ivy Laurina before, but hadn't the full address of her death. Wonder why Laurina went to Isle of Wight? Maybe Ivy was living there.

        I wonder if William and Laurina split up and it was easier for Laurina to say she was a widow, especially if William was in the US and so wouldn't be around, so went home back to Oxford with daughter Ivy.
        Last edited by ozgirl; 10-02-13, 23:01. Reason: To stop it being confusing!
        Linda


        My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

        Comment


        • #5
          Here we go again not to confuse you but this is also what I found.
          Boarder Crossing to Canada.
          Nellie Nash crossed the Boarder April 1907
          aged 22
          Occupation Office Clerk
          Wiinipeg Canada
          Passaged paid by Aunty and Uncle,Final Destination Oaklands
          Joining Aunty and Uncle
          Seaport Entry Montreal.
          Yep Ivy was living there Lizzy

          Comment


          • #6
            Have found

            Ivy going home to mother in Oxford

            Border Crossings: From Canada to U.S., 1895-1954
            Name: Ivy Laurina Penny
            Arrival Date: 17 Jul 1912
            Port of Arrival: Quebec, Canada
            Ship Name: Royal George
            Port of Departure: Bristol and Avonmouth
            Residence Country: England
            Age: 27
            Birth Date: abt 1885
            Birth Country: England
            Gender: Female
            Race/Nationality: English
            Record Type: Manifests
            Line Number: 26

            England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966
            Name: Ivy Laurina Penny
            Probate Date: 10 Oct 1961
            Death Date: 15 Feb 1961
            Death Place: Isle of Wight
            Registry: London, England
            Elaine

            Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

            http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
            http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Death for one of the children

              "Ontario Deaths,1869-1937 and Overseas Deaths, 1939-1947"
              name: Amy Winnifred Penny
              event: Death
              event date: 27 Feb 1890
              event place: Toronto, York, Ontario
              gender: Female
              age: 0
              birthplace: Toronto
              estimated birth year: 1890
              reference number: yr 1890 cn 20543
              film number: 1853535
              digital folder number: 4173800
              image number: 1245
              Elaine

              Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

              http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
              http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ozgirl View Post
                Thanks Liz - I had found daughter Ivy Laurina before, but hadn't the full address of her death. Wonder why she went to Isle of Wight? Maybe Ivy was living there. I wonder if William and she split up and it was easier to say she was a widow, especially if William was in the US and so wouldn't be around.
                You might find something useful here, if she were buried in the IoW: http://www.isle-of-wight-fhs.co.uk/mis_bis.htm

                Christine
                Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for that everyone - I thought it was likely that Amy had died, but couldn't find any record of it - so in Feb 1890, they are still in Toronto, but a year later, they are in London for the census.

                  Liz, where did you find that for the border crossing - did it say that her aunt was Ivy, as I didn't think that Ivy married, plus Ivy was Nellie's cousin anyway

                  Thanks for the link Christine, will have a look.
                  Linda


                  My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Couldn't find anything relevant myself but you might find something here: http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/index.jsp

                    Christine
                    Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      just been looking at


                      Border Crossings: From Canada to U.S., 1895-1954
                      Name: Nellie Nash
                      Arrival Date: Apr 1907
                      Port of Arrival: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
                      Residence Country: Canada
                      Age: 22
                      Birth Date: abt 1885
                      Birth Country: England
                      Gender: Female
                      Race/Nationality: English
                      Record Type: Manifests
                      Line Number: 20

                      can't make out the name after aunt and uncle

                      but have found

                      name : Nellie Nash
                      event: Census
                      event date: 1906
                      event place: 3F, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
                      gender: Female
                      marital status : Single
                      relationship to head : Boarder
                      birthplace : England
                      estimated birth year : 1885
                      household number: 214
                      Elaine

                      Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                      http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                      http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Now this is interesting:

                        Searching on passenger lists, just using Nellie May, I came across an entry for a Nellie May Earl going to Honolulu from California in 1922. She is born in Oxford, England, on 19 July 1855 - mine is born in Horspath, Oxfordshire (just outside Oxford) in Sep Q 1885. On the entry for her return to California, she states she has nationality through her marriage on Jan 17.1917.

                        Then on the 1920 census, husband Jacob Earl, she is his 2nd wife, there is a link to a public tree on Ancestry, which gives her name as "Nellie Mae Nash" !! Surely this is too much of a coincidence. Could it be her?
                        Linda


                        My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Success - look what I found!

                          https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XLH7-KSD

                          It looks like her first husband was John Campbell Black.
                          Linda


                          My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ozgirl View Post
                            Now this is interesting:

                            Searching on passenger lists, just using Nellie May, I came across an entry for a Nellie May Earl going to Honolulu from California in 1922. She is born in Oxford, England, on 19 July 1855 - mine is born in Horspath, Oxfordshire (just outside Oxford) in Sep Q 1885. On the entry for her return to California, she states she has nationality through her marriage on Jan 17.1917.

                            Then on the 1920 census, husband Jacob Earl, she is his 2nd wife, there is a link to a public tree on Ancestry, which gives her name as "Nellie Mae Nash" !! Surely this is too much of a coincidence. Could it be her?
                            That looks extremely possible. I'd definitely take her, if she were mine; though I would make sure that I had a good "audit trail" to unravel things if something later proved it to be wrong.

                            Christine

                            PS - The extra info does make it pretty definite!
                            Last edited by Christine in Herts; 11-02-13, 13:22.
                            Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yes - I forgot to say that her parents are the ones named on the FamilySearch record, so there is no doubt. No to just track down William Isaac.
                              Linda


                              My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Elaine - looking at that record you found, border crossing in Apr 1907, I think it says Aunt and Uncle Geo von Werder. There is a George Von Werder and wife Dorothy (?) living in Oakland in 1910 census, but I'm blowed if I can work out any connection. Also it looks as though George remarries (to Emma) in 1919, so can find no other trace of Dorothy, or daughter Rose.
                                Linda


                                My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Here's a surprise for you.
                                  The San Francisco call., October 06, 1897, Page 7.
                                  "New Divorce Suits.
                                  W.J.Penny against Laurina Emily Penny for desertion"

                                  I'll let you get a copy of it (the search term is highlighted, you may wish to try and get a plain version), and perhaps search further among the San Francisco newspapers for more.
                                  Go to> http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/
                                  Search for> Laurina
                                  State> California
                                  Should be the second in the list of results.
                                  Last edited by keldon; 11-02-13, 16:11.
                                  Phil
                                  historyhouse.co.uk
                                  Essex - family and local history.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Wonderful find, off for a read. Many thanks!

                                    Interesting that he was divorcing her for desertion, as he seems to have been the one travelling around! Didn't know that he was in San Francisco before - new areas to search.
                                    Linda


                                    My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I thought it was Von Werder, thanks for that;D
                                      Last edited by Elaine; 11-02-13, 21:53.
                                      Elaine

                                      Looking for Ward, Moore, Hunt, Warren...and who was Gertrude Wills

                                      http://leicestermoores.tribalpages.com
                                      http://wardnottsleics.tribalpages.com

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I keep looking at these census returns - 1910, William Penny and wife Celeste and 2 children in San Francisco http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...c=&pid=1674514, and the same couple again in 1930 in San Diego - http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...=&pid=92120686.

                                        A lot of things seem to match up, but there are also some inconsistencies. Williams dob and place of birth are close enough, but the date of immigration is a problem. However, I can't find travel dates for any William Penny that would match. In 1910 they say that they have been married for 13 years, and the children are Williams step-children. However, I found Celeste by herself (as Lesta) in 1900, with 3 children (a younger one Gladys) in San Francisco, and on that she says she has been married 10 years.

                                        Also on the 1910, William says his father was born in France and his mother in England. In 1930, his father is born in England and his mother in Northern Ireland! Also, can nor find anything more on the children, Elsa May and Guy.

                                        This is the time-line so far
                                        William married Laurina in England in 1880, their daughter Ivy is born in 1881. Sometime before 1889 they travel to Toronto where in 1889 another daughter, Amy is born. Amy dies in Toronto in 1890. In 1891 Laurina and William are in London, Ivy is with her maternal grandparents in Oxford (did Ivy go to Canada with them?).

                                        William goes back to either Canada/USA and in 1897 files for divorce. Could he have met Celeste in the early 90's, as their possible 1st child was born in 1892 or 1894 , and then Guy in 1893/1895. Another inconsistency is in 1900 the father of Celeste's children is said to have been born in England, but in 1910 he now comes from Vermont. The last child Gladys was born in 1898 - did they marry by then? Had William gone to San Diego by then?

                                        We know my William Penny was in San Francisco in 1897 when he filed for divorce, but by 1905 when Nellie went out he was supposedly in San Diego. However when Nellie goes to visit him from Canada in 1907 she says he is in Oakland, which is in San Francisco.

                                        I cannot find any record that would tie in with William coming to the States - did they change details so they couldn't be traced.

                                        Sorry this is so long, but if anyone can find anything to either confirm or prove anything wrong, I'd love to hear it!
                                        Linda


                                        My avatar is my Grandmother Carolina Meulenhoff 1896 - 1955

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