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John Troop the cad !

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  • John Troop the cad !

    Hello ,
    Ive been looking for John Troop since early 2002. Like with most people who decide to do the family tree you start off thinking it will be easy ...Anyway back to the bane of my life for the last 11 years.

    John was born in 1874 in Gainsborough. Jump to 1900 in Liverpool and John gets married to Maggie Ross October 31st 1900, Maggie was 9months pregnant at the time and she gave birth to a little girl November 5th 1900, (no rush there then !) By the following April and the 1901 census John has moved to the other end of the road they lived in and told the census person that he was SINGLE ..think the house was a lodging house . Anyway the little girl my husbands nan was put in an orphanage at the age of 11. Maggie her mother had died of a brain condition and even thought nan and her mam lived with her parents they still parmed her off. Well Nan grows up and for some reason told her family that her dad John Troop had been sent to America to work and they were to join him. But he had been killed in the San Fransisco earthquake in 1906.

    So in 2002 I decided to look for him . Found him born in 1874..and his brothers and sisters, then in Liverpool where he got married ...then nothing .hes not even on the 1911 census. So over the years Ive tried looking for him off and on. I just seemed to keep hitting a brick wall where he was concerned lol.

    About October of last year 2012 and I know this will sound potty I went to a spritulist meeting more for my daughter than anything lol. And John came through I nearly fell off the chair lol.He said some things that no one there could have known. The lady in charge said have you any questions for him I said YESSS where the devil has he been all these years. He then left lol. typical man !

    So I rejoined Genes Reunited only do it for a month at a time cant afford a full membership. So I thought Id look for John . I then found he had died in 1972 aged 98. I never gave it a thought he would have lived to that sort of age. He was born 1874 . I know it was the right one because in 1974 they were putting the DOB on the register and it was his 21st Feb. So I thought well if hes lived to that great age he might have married and yes he had married again . He was 68 years old and his 2nd wife was 53. Now on the marriage certifcate he says hes a batchelor (hense John Troop the cad lol). He got married in Walthamstow E17..long way from Liverpool lol.

    Id love to know what he got up to in the inbetween years well from 1900 till 1956 his daughter would have been 56 married and with children of her own but he never ever came looking for her.Is there anyone on here who knows if there is a newspaper that does "where are they know" type of column so I could put his story on and just maybe there is somebody out there who might remember him it was only 1974 when he finally popped his clogs.I live in the hope that somebody might have a picture of him it was 1970's everyone had a camera . His 2nd wife died in 1989.

    Thanks everyone
    Lainey214

  • #2
    hi,
    welcome Lainey! I notice that on the 1901 census he is staying with two ladies, one named Florence aged 23yrs.. now I might be losing it rather here, but in 1911 in SHEFFIELD there is a John TROOP married to a Florence with children.. I haven't had a look at the image yet, but it states he was born in Gainsborough, Lincs..

    edit: I tell a fib it's ROTHERHAM and hes working in the steel works..

    says he's been married 6 yrs and has two daughters.. This Florence states she is from Ipswich/suffolk
    Last edited by Darksecretz; 07-02-13, 14:48.
    Julie
    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

    .......I find dead people

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
      hi,
      welcome Lainey! I notice that on the 1901 census he is staying with two ladies, one named Florence aged 23yrs.. now I might be losing it rather here, but in 1911 in SHEFFIELD there is a John TROOP married to a Florence with children.. I haven't had a look at the image yet, but it states he was born in Gainsborough, Lincs..

      edit: I tell a fib it's ROTHERHAM and hes working in the steel works..

      says he's been married 6 yrs and has two daughters.. This Florence states she is from Ipswich/suffolk
      the John Troop marries Florence Askew it looks like in Rotherham, he has the middle name of Alfred, it could still be him trying to alter his name slightly.. [as it would have been a Bigamous marriage]
      Julie
      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

      .......I find dead people

      Comment


      • #4
        I couldnt beleive it when I found him in Essex and he died when he was 98 lol. The other Johns arent the same ones Ive been down that road loads of times lol...Hes not on the 1911 census either. Cant wait for the next census to come online and see where he was in 1921 lol.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hate to spoil Julie's theory, lol, but if you enter John Troop born 1874 in 1881 census, there are 2 John Troops born Gaisborough; a John and also a John Alfred.

          Jay
          Janet in Yorkshire



          Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

          Comment


          • #6
            To find a photo or any information about his missing years, your best hope is to think about how you might find a living person who remembers him. Essentially you will have to treat it like a probate research/heir hunter case, and build an extended family tree - working down each line to find living relatives (if any exist).

            Things to look at would be:

            The electoral rolls for Walthamstow, starting from his marriage there going forward - see where he lived & died, check local papers for death announcements/obituaries and go through them. You could try to get an article in whatever the local paper is now.

            Are you certain the marriage you have found is definitely his second and that there weren't any more in between ? Could he have had other children ?

            There aren't going to be any children from that marriage, but what about his wife - did she have children from an earlier marriage or did she have brothers/sisters who had children and may still be around ? Did she have an unusual family name that might be easier to trace ?

            Did he or she leave a will .... who were the witnesses, executors and beneficiaries?

            Have you checked to see who the informant was on his wife's death certificate in 1989, where was she living at the time ?

            Can be a lot of hard work - a lot of the records you need to check will not be online and you may have to buy quite a number of BMD certificates, but interesting to do.
            Best of luck.
            Last edited by AntonyM; 07-02-13, 15:05.
            Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
            Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post
              Hate to spoil Julie's theory, lol, but if you enter John Troop born 1874 in 1881 census, there are 2 John Troops born Gaisborough; a John and also a John Alfred.

              Jay
              I just spotted that other one Jay.. :(

              sound advice there Antony.. as always
              Julie
              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

              .......I find dead people

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Lainey and welcome to FTF
                Wouldn't he have been about 82 when they married in 1956, not 68?
                Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Do you mean john married annie mckenzie ross ?? maggie was witness

                  1964/5 living 8 union road, walthamstow with wife alice
                  Lorraine

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                  • #10
                    you could try the message boards

                    Discover your Cockney Ancestors in the fascinating East End of London. Join the East of London Family History Society for as little as £10 a year.


                    although walthamstow was said to be essex it is east london
                    Lorraine

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by loltel View Post
                      Do you mean john married annie mckenzie ross ?? maggie was witness

                      1964/5 living 8 union road, walthamstow with wife alice
                      He married Maggie Mackenzie Ross in West Derby October 1900 and they had a baby Nov 1900. Ive got their marriage cert . By the following April 1901 4/5 months later hes up sticks and moved to the other half of the street living in lodging house and when the census man called he said he was single,

                      In 1965/65 thats when he appeared again and looks like he had married again to Alice Clara on 26th July 1956 it says hes 68 ??? and a batchelor??? Oh hells bells have I gone and got it wrong again or was he maybe a young looking 82 lol...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Lainey214 View Post
                        He married Maggie Mackenzie Ross in West Derby October 1900 ...

                        In 1965/65 thats when he appeared again and looks like he had married again to Alice Clara on 26th July 1956 ...
                        Do you have the two marriage certificates, if so do the details of father and father's occupation match. What about signatures, do they look similar?
                        Elaine







                        Comment


                        • #13
                          maybe he lied about his age on the cert? afterall, it would be a huge gap between him and his bride to be if he told the truth!
                          Julie
                          They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                          .......I find dead people

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            have i lost the plot yet again, is this the right marriage

                            Lorraine

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I assumed you meant Alice Clara from the dates you gave and her age at death and marriage, plus a birth for her that fit the marriage.

                              If he lied about his age he didn't go on lying or she would have thought he was younger at death.
                              Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 07-02-13, 16:12.
                              Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                This is what somebody else found out for me.One both marriage certs John Troops gives his father as being of the same name John Troop which is what I found on earlier census's.
                                Clara Wursten ..........Alice's mother.
                                Probate Date: 16 Apr 1956
                                Death Date: 28 Oct 1955
                                Death Place: Widow
                                Registry: London, England

                                Clara Wursten of 8 Union Rd Walthamstow E17, widow, died at Whipps Cross hospital, probate to Alice Clara Wursten, spinster. Effect £270

                                Yes, Clara would be the most likely to register John's death.

                                So in 1964/5 they were living at the mother's address -

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Lainey214 View Post
                                  He married Maggie Mackenzie Ross in West Derby October 1900 and they had a baby Nov 1900. Ive got their marriage cert . By the following April 1901 4/5 months later hes up sticks and moved to the other half of the street living in lodging house and when the census man called he said he was single,

                                  In 1965/65 thats when he appeared again and looks like he had married again to Alice Clara on 26th July 1956 it says hes 68 ??? and a batchelor??? Oh hells bells have I gone and got it wrong again or was he maybe a young looking 82 lol...
                                  can you just check your marriage cert Lainey? [well, the one for John,] can you see Lorraines link to Ancestry at all? if you can't then I'll add the picture up here for you to see... :smilee:

                                  Originally posted by loltel View Post
                                  have i lost the plot yet again, is this the right marriage

                                  http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?h...c=&pid=5171939
                                  Julie
                                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                  .......I find dead people

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    this is what Lorraine has found

                                    Julie
                                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                    .......I find dead people

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      there is also a baptism for the daughter of John & Annie... [Nov 25th 1900]
                                      Julie
                                      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                      .......I find dead people

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Can I just check - do you have the marriage certificate for John Troop who married Alice Wursten in 1956?
                                        This is the reference
                                        Alice C Wursten
                                        Spouse Surname: Troop
                                        Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1956
                                        Registration district: Essex South Western
                                        Inferred County: Essex
                                        Volume Number: 5a
                                        Page Number: 591

                                        How do you know they were living at the Walthamstow address in 1965 and if Alice Clara Troop nee Wursten died first how could she register John's death? Have you got the death cert?
                                        Margaret

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