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  • Naval Pensions

    Can anyone please point me in the right direction.

    I have a John Campbell born 1773 and under the Naval Quota joined the Navy at Cramlington Northumberland in 1795. Is there anywhere I might find his naval records and whether he received a pension please? This is not an area of research I am familiar with.

    Your help would be very much appreciated. Thank you.
    Linda - Happy Hunting

    A tidy house is the sign of a broken computer

    Researching: Brown, Bell, Key and Musgrave from Cumberland. Dodds, Green, Campbell, Hall, Armstrong, Davison from Co. Durham. Raymond from Devon/Cornwall.

  • #2
    The Navy did not keep individual service records for ratings before 1853. Prior to that date, men signed on a specific ship for the duration of its commission and were then discharged to find another ship, if possible. In 1853, the Navy introduced Continuous Service engagements for men together with a general pension in respect of time served, in an endeavour to retain experienced seamen.
    Serving men at that time, who wished to take up a CS engagement had to obtain a Certificate of Service from the Pay Office for pension entitlement purposes and although the service recorded for previous years on these certificates does not necessarily cover an unbroken period from the first date known until the last, it does show the ships served on and the dates. Gaps in these earlier years are probably due to a man's inability to sign on another ship when first discharged from his previous one, but might also be due to the loss of Ships Books, in which men's names were recorded.

    (My 2xgt grandfather served from 1823 until 1861 but only had just over 31yrs reckonable service credited for pension purposes. I did find however, that the captain of his first ship, HMS Larne, was Frederick Marryat who was later a noted author.)

    The National Archives do have some early records of seamen in the ADM29 series, Pay Office records, and ADM73 series, Ratings applications for admission to Royal Greenwich Hospital, and are probably your best bet, but you may find searching the TNA site somewhat daunting and a bit hit and miss but I wish you good luck.

    merleyone

    Comment


    • #3
      Many thanks for responding merleyone. I did have a look at the TNA site and got quite lost off. Been looking for this chap for 12 years - looks like I shall continue looking. Thank you for your good wishes.
      Linda - Happy Hunting

      A tidy house is the sign of a broken computer

      Researching: Brown, Bell, Key and Musgrave from Cumberland. Dodds, Green, Campbell, Hall, Armstrong, Davison from Co. Durham. Raymond from Devon/Cornwall.

      Comment


      • #4
        Do you have any records of his that mention a particular ship?

        The crew lists / pay books are held at TNA, and you may be able to track someone through their history. I tracked James WHITEHEAD (b c1800, York) through his naval career 1822 - 1828. The marriage register entry, in 1825, showed that he was living on board HMS Victory. From that, I was able to follow him backward to his volunteering (in Malta!) and forward until he "ran" in December 1828. The only problem was - after having a great time looking at all those wonderful old records - that my OH's ancestor was born about 1834, so the likelihood of James WHITEHEAD actually being OH's Gx3-grandfather is vanishingly small!

        Christine
        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

        Comment


        • #5
          Worth having a search in ADM 73 here

          The National Archives, Kew – Research Service Offered
          Contact me via PM on Family Tree Forum or via my personal website - www.militaryandfamilyresearch.co.uk

          Comment


          • #6
            Could he have served at the Battle of Trafalgar 1805? If so there is a list of all those that served in this battle at TNA.

            Is it possible that he went to the Greenwich Hosptal? This last was the original name for Greenwich College. I have one who started his naval career at The Greenwich Hospital in the 1820's and I have all his details which includes all his father's details and all the ships his father served on back to the late 1700's. I found these at TNA. His father was a Bo'sun.

            Janet
            Last edited by Janet; 01-02-13, 11:22.

            Comment


            • #7
              Many thanks for responding. I managed to get into the index of those who served at the Battle of Trafalgar. There were 18 John Cambell, but only one aged 32 which is the age our John would have been. The Information I gleaned John Campbell aged 32 born in Scotland. Ship: HMS Revenge; Rating/Rank: Master's Mate. Service details: Comments: From: Severn (would welcome advice on what this means) HMS Revenge Ship's pay book number SB29 25 April 1805. Sources used Catalogue reference ADM 36/16545.

              At least we found one of the correct age. Pity it didn't say whereabouts in Scotland he was born.

              To my knowledge he didn't go to Greenwich Hospital. Information from another source was that he lost an eye. Don't have verification of this though.
              Linda - Happy Hunting

              A tidy house is the sign of a broken computer

              Researching: Brown, Bell, Key and Musgrave from Cumberland. Dodds, Green, Campbell, Hall, Armstrong, Davison from Co. Durham. Raymond from Devon/Cornwall.

              Comment


              • #8
                Greenwich Hospital was not a hospital in our sense of the word. It was a Naval Establishment to where youing men would have gone if they wanted to join the navy. Whereas now the Hospital is known as Greenwich Royal Naval College and only open to those who have gained a cadetship there but back in the 1820's or earlier it would have been a place where anybody could have gone to, particularly if they already had a father serving in the Navy.

                Janet

                Comment


                • #9
                  You can really bury yourself in TNA web site. Janet mentioned the Greenwich Hospital and I went down that road. Found a John Campbell and the dates quoted were roughly right. I have requested an estimate for a copy of the document (2 pages) and am waiting to hear from them. Will be interested to read what it tells me.

                  I shall keep you all posted.
                  Linda - Happy Hunting

                  A tidy house is the sign of a broken computer

                  Researching: Brown, Bell, Key and Musgrave from Cumberland. Dodds, Green, Campbell, Hall, Armstrong, Davison from Co. Durham. Raymond from Devon/Cornwall.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Good luck with that. The document I have from the Greenwich Hospital lists my ancestor, his date and place of birth and his father's name and place of birth, all the ships his father served on, places where they lived, which helped in census later on and corroborated all the information I knew already about the family, as the father came from Kincardine in Scotland. It was a wealth of information.

                    Janet

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Linda,

                      the John Campbell you found, who served on HMS Revenge at Trafalgar 'came from Severn', which means his previous ship was HMS Severn. That ship had been wrecked on 21/12/1804, having run aground in Grouville Bay, Jersey, although all crew were saved.
                      HMS Revenge, a 74 gun ship, was only launched at Chatham Dockyard on 13/4/1805 so all the crew were new to the ship and probably new to each other and it was still fitting out there in May 1805. During the battle at Trafalgar, Revenge took a lot of punishment from both French and Spanish ships, including nine shots 'below the copper', ie through the copper sheathing of the hull below the waterline, and suffered 28 crew members killed and 51 wounded.
                      Very much rough, tough times for mariners in those days!

                      merleyone

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Excellent, thank you merleyone
                        Linda - Happy Hunting

                        A tidy house is the sign of a broken computer

                        Researching: Brown, Bell, Key and Musgrave from Cumberland. Dodds, Green, Campbell, Hall, Armstrong, Davison from Co. Durham. Raymond from Devon/Cornwall.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Incidentally, you could consider that "Greenwich Hospital" was the naval equivalent of the army's Chelsea Hospital... The kind of place where the word "Hospital" iha more to do with "hospitality" or "hostel(ry)" than nursing.

                          Christine
                          Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The Greenwich Hospital is more akin to the Royal Military Asylum (RMA) in Chelsea which was a school for young boys initially to either go into the army or to gain a trade. This school was open in the early years for those children who had been orhaned when their fathers had been killed in the Napoleonic Wars. Later it was opened to children of those whose fathers had been in certain regiments in the army. I had two boys who attended this school in the late 1880's and whose father had been in the 33rd Regiment. It was known as the Dukies School. It is now quite a posh establishment in Dover, with fees of about £10000!! And to think my Great Uncles went there from a poor background, both going into the army as tailors!

                            "Founded in 1803 by act of Royal Warrant dating from 1801, the school was until 1892 called the Royal Military Asylum. The school’s primary purpose was to educate the orphans of British servicemen killed in the Napoleonic Wars of 1793-1815."

                            So I think the Greenwich Hospital now College worked on the same basis.

                            But note the word Asylum which has a dfifferent meaning today!

                            Janet
                            Last edited by Janet; 02-02-13, 11:08.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              For total clarity on the Royal Hospital for Seamen, commonly known as Greenwich Hospital, its aims and purpose etc and established by the Royal Charter of William & Mary dated 25 October 1694, sight of the Greenwich Hospital website at www.grenhosp.org.uk is recommended.

                              merleyone

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I was actually referring to the Royal Hospital School Greenwich to which my own ancestor went in 1838. This was a naval school for 100 sons of commissioned and ward room warrant officers of the RN and marines as well as for 300 sons of private seamen and marines who have served or are serving in the RN and of officers or seamen of the Merchant Service, so that the school in this capacity is very like the RMA at Chelsea that I was talking about above .



                                However, the Greenwich Hospital for Navy pensioners might also be relevant to Linda.

                                Janet

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Good morning, amazing all this information. Many thanks.

                                  However, I am starting to have my doubts if my John Campbell was at the Greenwich Hospital. I shall get the information from TNA. Looking at my records John married in Long Benton, Newcastle in 1814. Just got to be patient and wait for the info from TNA to see if it matches up.

                                  Cold and windy up here in Co. Durham. Must get on with the housework instead of playing on the computer.
                                  Linda - Happy Hunting

                                  A tidy house is the sign of a broken computer

                                  Researching: Brown, Bell, Key and Musgrave from Cumberland. Dodds, Green, Campbell, Hall, Armstrong, Davison from Co. Durham. Raymond from Devon/Cornwall.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Just had the estimate - £5.60 for two pages. Paid up, now have up to 14 days to wait for the download to be e-mailed. Shall let you know when it comes through and what it reveals.
                                    Linda - Happy Hunting

                                    A tidy house is the sign of a broken computer

                                    Researching: Brown, Bell, Key and Musgrave from Cumberland. Dodds, Green, Campbell, Hall, Armstrong, Davison from Co. Durham. Raymond from Devon/Cornwall.

                                    Comment

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