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  • Watford Workhouse

    Hi

    On the 1911 Census I found one of my Gt.Grandmother's, Sarah Ann Tiffin (b.1849 Bethnal Green) living in the Bethnal Green Workhouse. I believe she may have been there for a very long time
    because the last time I am able to find here is in 1891 living in poverty as a boarder with second husband Thomas George Tiffin in the infamous Flower & Dean Street Spitalfields.
    Try as I might I cannot find her in 1901. In 1911 she is a widow again.

    I then decided to search for her death following the 1911 discovery and the only one which matched was a death in Watford. I scratched my head for a while as to what she might
    have been doing in Watford of all places, then the penny dropped, was there a workhouse there ? and sure enough there was.

    Does anyone one know if it was a usual practice to transfer from one workhouse to another?


    dreen22

  • #2
    I am sure that pretty much every large town had a workhouse in some guise or another, I doubt watford was the exception



    The building still exists, just up from Watford football ground, Vicarge Road
    Last edited by Jessbowbag; 30-01-13, 08:08.
    Jess

    Comment


    • #3
      Now known as Watford General Hospital! Used to be Schrodells which was the old part. Up until recently the workhouse part was well used as the main hospital, but new building has seen the shift away from the old building, which is almost unrecognisable as a workhouse these days!

      Janet
      Last edited by Janet; 30-01-13, 10:47.

      Comment


      • #4
        I believe that the Peace Memorial building was also once a workhouse. In both cases the older members of the community were inclined to resist being taken to hospital - not out of fear of hospital, but because they knew the buildings as the Workhouse!

        And my sons were born in Schrodell's!

        Christine
        Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

        Comment


        • #5
          Ah did not know about the Peace Memorial, but then I am an incomer to the area!

          Janet

          Comment


          • #6
            I have the same thing occuring in my family.

            My gg grandfather born and raised in the St Pancras area in London, was in two asylums - London County Asylum in Dartford, and died in the Long Grove Asylum in Epsom. The records are in the LMA.

            His aunt , also from St Pancras, died in the Metropolitan District Asylum, Leavesden Watford, and the records are again at the LMA.

            Someone told that these asylums were run by London County. It might be the same for your relative.

            If it was me, I would see if you find the workhouse records. They can be really informative as to date of entry, last address etc.

            bcbrit
            George, Uren, Toy - Cornwall. Barrows, Blair, Bowyer, Freeth, Green, Manie - London

            Comment


            • #7
              The asylums were a bit different from workhouses.

              There were several up here in Herts, and several down in Surrey. They were largely to cope with people suffering from psychiatric problems... but the interpretation of "psychiatric problem" was sometimes significantly wider than we would now consider appropriate - especially in connection with women who behaved in a way which upset their family (even if they were the victim of someone else's bad behaviour), or people with learning difficulties, and such.

              Christine
              Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

              Comment


              • #8
                Sorry,I didn't explain myself too well. What I was trying to say was if the asylums in Surrey or Herts, where my relatives were, were run by the London County - could the workhouse in Watford be run by the same people as the Bethnal Green workhouse ?

                By using the records it might be possible to find an entry saying that Sarah Ann Tiffin had beenn transferred.

                bcbrit
                George, Uren, Toy - Cornwall. Barrows, Blair, Bowyer, Freeth, Green, Manie - London

                Comment


                • #9
                  Watford Workhousen etc.

                  Originally posted by dreen22 View Post
                  Hi


                  On the 1911 Census I found one of my Gt.Grandmother's, Sarah Ann Tiffin (b.1849 Bethnal Green) living in the Bethnal Green Workhouse. I believe she may have been there for a very long time
                  because the last time I am able to find here is in 1891 living in poverty as a boarder with second husband Thomas George Tiffin in the infamous Flower & Dean Street Spitalfields.
                  Try as I might I cannot find her in 1901. In 1911 she is a widow again.

                  I then decided to search for her death following the 1911 discovery and the only one which matched was a death in Watford. I scratched my head for a while as to what she might
                  have been doing in Watford of all places, then the penny dropped, was there a workhouse there ? and sure enough there was.

                  Does anyone one know if it was a usual practice to transfer from one workhouse to another?


                  dreen22
                  Thank-you so much to everyone who replied to my query. They are very interesting and it is always fascinating to hear of other people's families.

                  Nothing is known about my Gt.Grandmother. All I had was a memory of my mother saying "My Dad's mother was in the workhouse". That memory stayed with me, so researching the family I found she had been widowed and re-married. It seems after that her life went downhill and in 1891 was living in a Boarding House and her 2nd husband died. Therefore between 1891 and 1911 she went into the workhouse, probably Bethnal Green, but I cannot find her on the 1901 census. I have checked all her children and she does not appear with any of them. The children all had very large families and were obviously quite poor so would not have been able to look after her I guess especially as most of them only had 2 rooms to accomodate their extremely large broods.

                  When I found the death entry for Watford, then a Workhouse I did not know there was more than one, a death certificate should give me that information but I realise now there is probably more
                  information to be gained from the workhouse records.

                  However, I would like to fill the gap between 1891 and 1911.

                  dreeny22

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Dreeny -
                    There are london/middlesex workhouse records on Ancestry. I don't know if they cover the period/place you're interested in.

                    More bad news: the "index" consists of locale & grouping of years. There is a volunteer index project on ancestry to index them further, but I don't know its status

                    good luck!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      tHOMAS Tiffin is the 1891 death In Whitechapel I guess/ Have you actually found her in a workhouse at all or are you assuming thats what happened?
                      Jess

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jessbowbag View Post
                        tHOMAS Tiffin is the 1891 death In Whitechapel I guess/ Have you actually found her in a workhouse at all or are you assuming thats what happened?
                        Yes, Sarah Tiffin, my Gt.Grandmother, can be found on the 1911 Census an Inmate of the Bethnal Green Workhouse. The fact in 1891 she is living in Flower & Dean Street with Thomas indicated to me what a run down state she had sunk into. In 1881 when my Gt.Grandfather John William Parks was still alive she is living comfortably in Shoreditch with her family. My Gt.Grandfather was a
                        Glass Blower and I should imagine that provided a good income then to support his family. After his death she married Tiffin and appears to have gone downhill. Flower & Dean Street and the immediate surrounding area was a warren of boarding houses crawling with thieves and worse and even the police were afraid to enter these streets. So my poor gt.grandmother must have been at her wits end to find herself in such a sorry state and when Thomas died it must have been the end of the road for her. As mentioned previously I cannot find her on the 1901 census.
                        Maybe the enumerator was afraid to enter these streets, assuming she was still there, of course.

                        dreen22
                        Last edited by dreen22; 02-02-13, 07:11.

                        Comment


                        • #13


                          This record of a Thomas shows him dying in the Whitechapel Workhouse Infirmary and is marked with *Inquest.

                          Very sad tale. I note that in the 1911 workhouse record, Sarah Ann is recorded as previously working as a charperson so likely to have remained in the area.

                          I wonder if Sarah Ann changed her name back to Parks. One of the witnesses at Emily Mary Ann's wedding in 1896 was Sarah Ann Parks. This could be sister Sarah Ann but she had by then married Joseph Buchee in 1885.

                          Also another witness on one occasion was a Susan Parks. Possibly a sibling of Sarah Ann's first husband. I wonder if the Parks' family helped your Sarah Ann out in 1901.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by PhotoFamily View Post
                            Dreeny -
                            There are london/middlesex workhouse records on Ancestry. I don't know if they cover the period/place you're interested in.

                            More bad news: the "index" consists of locale & grouping of years. There is a volunteer index project on ancestry to index them further, but I don't know its status

                            good luck!
                            Yes, I have already had a few hits at these, but even with a vague idea of the date it is a daunting task. In the early 90's when we did not have the benefit of Ancestry and the like I spent many a long hour in London trawling the census etc, sometimes it would be weeks before anything was found, but what joy when you did.

                            I wonder whether the originals in the LMA have any sort of index, doubtful, I guess, because you would think that would have been digitised too.

                            dreen

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dreen22 View Post
                              I wonder whether the originals in the LMA have any sort of index, doubtful, I guess, because you would think that would have been digitised too.

                              dreen
                              Yes, I doubt there's much indexed on paper either, tho sometimes they exist. As I mentioned, tho - there is an effort to index it by volunteers, so it's a matter of waiting. Unfortunately, the ones I want most seem to be lost to time.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Thank-you Vera for the Workhouse record for Thomas Tiffen. They must have gone downhill rapidly after the 1891 census which would have been taken in March/April and he must have been ill at that time, although I suppose the Inquest would point to a sudden death. Thank-you also for the entry because it is more than possible that Sara Ann was also in the Whitechapel Workhouse which records are probably also
                                within the Poor Law Records on Ancestry.

                                Sarah Ann Parks was one of Sarah Ann,s daughters, yes, another sad tale. The child that was born to her in the workhouse died the same day but I cannot find any record of the mother after that time. Joseph Buchee her husband was still in the workhouse in 1911.

                                Susan Parks I believe was Sarah Ann,s sister-in-law.

                                I have checked all of Sarah Ann,s children in 1901 but no sign of her. I have also searched Parks individually and even under her single name of Smith.

                                dreen

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  thomas tiffen dies in workhouse 3rd july 1891 of cerebral afflictions... could have been brain damage from an attack etc

                                  last entry on page

                                  Lorraine

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                                  • #18
                                    sarah ann tiffen admitted to waterloo road workhouse on 27th may 1908 and discharged 9th june 1908 (self admitted)

                                    last entry

                                    Lorraine

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Go, Lorraine - can you work other workhouse miracles?

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Hello Lorraine,
                                        Thank-you for finding that entry and taking the time to trawl the records.

                                        However, I am a little puzzled. The Death indexes show Thomas as having died in Whitechapel and there is also an entry there which states Inquest. However this entry is at Bethnal Green
                                        Infirmary. I expect there is a reason and I am just missing something.

                                        Thanks again.

                                        dreen

                                        Comment

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