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Having trouble finding maiden names of spouses.

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  • Having trouble finding maiden names of spouses.

    Hi I have traced part of my family tree and have a definite father and son connected through about 6 censuses, plus birth and death records. From the records I know the names/year of birth/place of birth of two the women they married but I am struggling to find them before they were married as I don't know their maiden names. The Father was Charles Rose (b: 1817 in Leeds, Yorkshire, d:1891 in high thirkleby, yorkshire), he married Ellen ? (b: 1891 in Hartwith or burnham, Ripley, Yorkshire, d: 1894, Thirsk, Yorkshire). Just to really confuse things I cannot find Charles Rose's Parents - when he was younger he lived with his Grandfather and Uncle, I assume his parents died young or he was illegitimate but I haven't found a birth record yet. Charles son is William Rose (b: 1847 in Bagby, Thrisk, Yorkshire and dies 1890 in Kinston on hull), he married Margaret ?? (b: 1851 however the censuses give three locations 2xSouth shields, 1xpatterdale and 1xSuffolk(?)). Any help would be massively appreciated, I know I have been requesting a lot of help recently but I am desperate to find as much as I can by the end of the month so I can make a family tree book for my Grandmothers 80th birthday. in b:, h ( ( d) and he married Ellen ?? (b: 1816 in Bagby, Yorkshire and dEll1816Charles Rose (

  • #2
    hi Suzanne,

    I presume you subscribe to Ancestry?

    is this the correct family?

    Julie
    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

    .......I find dead people

    Comment


    • #3
      ancestry has thrown this possible baptism into the pot!

      Name: Charles Rose
      Parish: Leeds, St Peter
      Baptism Date: 27 Feb 1816
      Father's Name: William Rose
      Mother's Name: Flances Rose

      I presume that Flances is an error and it should be Frances, you could try looking in the indexes to see if they died.
      Julie
      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

      .......I find dead people

      Comment


      • #4
        What is the first census you have Charles and Ellen married on Suzanne? There is a marriage in June 1843 in Thirsk of a Charles Rose and an Ellen Jackson on the same page.
        Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

        Comment


        • #5
          I can spot this marriage as it looks very likely, is in the Thirsk dist and ties in with the first children being born



          Name: Charles Rose
          Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1843
          Registration district: Thirsk
          Inferred County: Yorkshire North Riding
          Volume Number: 24
          Page Number: 587


          Generally if you look for a marriage around the time of the first child being born then you are more likely to find a marriage, then the next step would be to purchase a b/cert for one of the children to verify the mothers MN [you should also buy the marriage cert to further confirm things]
          Julie
          They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

          .......I find dead people

          Comment


          • #6
            Name: William Rose
            Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1846
            Registration district: Thirsk
            Inferred County: Yorkshire North Riding
            Volume: 24
            Page: 536

            this looks to be Williams birth record,
            Julie
            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

            .......I find dead people

            Comment


            • #7
              seems when William died he left an admon [doesn't look like he left a will, so there probably isn't any more to find]

              Julie
              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

              .......I find dead people

              Comment


              • #8
                I can't spot a marriage though yet for William/Margaret [though I would suspect that they married in the Berwick area, as that is possibly the brides home area]
                Julie
                They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                .......I find dead people

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have found this one... it looks very probable, but again you will need to get one of William/Margarets childrens birth certs to confirm




                  Name: William Rose
                  Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1870
                  Registration district: Tynemouth
                  Inferred County: Northumberland
                  Volume Number: 10b
                  Page Number: 361

                  Berwick is in Northumberland.
                  Julie
                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                  .......I find dead people

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    and don't worry about asking for lookups etc.. we are only too happy to help :smilee:
                    Julie
                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                    .......I find dead people

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank you. The first census i have with Charles and Ellen together is 1851.
                      This does look like the wedding.

                      I actually don't know what I'm doing wrong trying to find these myself. I signed up to the top ancestry package and with EXACTY the same search criteria I get different results on my phone app and in the website. Also the two systems wont sync properly and I keep losing info so i am trying to keep a paper copy as well. Once again I really appreciate your help.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        FreeBMD pairs up the Dec 1870 marr of William Rose with Margaret Mills.

                        Jay
                        Janet in Yorkshire



                        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Familysearch.org has the following bp

                          16 Mar 1851 - at Alnwick, Margaret Mills d/o John & Elizabeth

                          This family was boarding in Alnwick in 1861

                          Jay


                          Janet in Yorkshire



                          Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Suzanne,

                            sometimes less is more when you are searching sometimes also you have to check if you have the 'advanced search' set on and if you are looking at the .co.uk or the .com site

                            I use the advanced search, but the best way is to keep trying and see which way suits you better...
                            Julie
                            They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                            .......I find dead people

                            Comment


                            • #16
                              I have looked and can see quite a few bapts for William/Frances' children in Leeds, it might be worthwhile tracking these children and seeing if either parent crops up later, I cannot spot a likely set of deaths for William/Frances so they might still be in the census though badly enumerated.
                              Julie
                              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                              .......I find dead people

                              Comment


                              • #17
                                Oohhh!!! Margaret Mills!!!! My uncles have Mills as a middle name and were told it was a family name but no one is called Mills and I totally had forgotten about it! Trying not to get ahead of myself but that could be her! :-)

                                Thanks for the search tips! :-) I will have a play and see if I have more success.

                                Comment


                                • #18
                                  It was Margaret Mills! Still trying to find who Ellen rose was before she married Charles but now have a big chunk of my tree filled!! :-)

                                  Comment


                                  • #19
                                    One of the childrens births should tell you whether the mother was Ellen nee Jackson (as the possible marriage in 1843 above on #4 and #5). Or alternatively what her name was, so that you could search for a marriage.

                                    p.s. There are too many Ellen Jacksons born around the right time in Yorkshire and living Yorkshire in 1841 to know. If it turns out to be her though, the marriage cert should point you to her father's name.
                                    Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 29-01-13, 10:59.
                                    Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                                    Comment


                                    • #20
                                      "Just to really confuse things I cannot find Charles Rose's Parents - when he was younger he lived with his Grandfather and Uncle, I assume his parents died young or he was illegitimate but I haven't found a birth record yet"

                                      In 1841 census Charles was in Felixkirk/Sutton in the household of John Rose, 75 yrs tailor, Mary 80, John Rose 45, Charles Rose 20. (No relationships were recorded in 1841.)
                                      BY 1851 John Rose senior was widowed and the return recorded that John Rose jnr was his son, 58 yrs, unmarried and a tailor. Charles Rose had married Ellen, they had their own establishment in nearby Bagby & Charles was a tailor.

                                      I think Charles most likely was the grandson of John senior and nephew of John jnr, but that doesn't neccessarily mean he had been brought up by them - perhaps he went to live with his grandfather to be apprenticed and to learn the trade?? It doesn't automatically mean his parents were deceased.

                                      There were several Rose families living in the villages of Sutton, Felixkirk, Bagby, Thirkleby etc in 1841, 51 and 61, and familysearch.org gives baptisms for the children of several different Rose couples in that area of the North Riding between 1780 and 1800, anyof whom could have been a parent of Charles.

                                      I think you really do need to get the marriage cert for Charles & Ellen - as already suggested, Ellen Jackson is a common name and you need to know her father's name to "pin down" the right one. The marriage cert would also give you the name of Charles's father (or not!) - I don't see how you can move any further back with Charles with any certainty without establishing the name of a parent.
                                      Also bear in mind that, although a really useful tool, familysearch.org does not have ALL records in its database nor are all parish records on line.

                                      Jay
                                      Last edited by Janet in Yorkshire; 29-01-13, 12:31.
                                      Janet in Yorkshire



                                      Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

                                      Comment

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