Fresh pair of eyes please

[dorcus]

Please I am trying to find the death of a William Lofthouse born in the 1850's.He was married to Mary Ann Lofthouse march qrt 1875 at Barton upon Irwell Lancashire.In the 1881 census she boarding with her son James 2 he was born 1879 and they were with her parents Robert and Sarah Ann Menzie at 112 Bridgewater st Mary Ann Lofthouse went on to Marry Thomas Baxendale.Cannot find anything thing else on William Lofthouse hit a brick wall on this one.Could someone please help out. Thanks Dorcus

[maudarby]

Just to add a bit more to Dorcus' post.
In 1881 Mary Ann says she is married & not widowed and she married Thomas Baxendale in 1887 at Wigan. This might narrow down William's death.
Moggie

[Chrissie Smiff]

Well between 1881 and 1887 the most likely in Lancashire would be Sept 1883 in Lancaster aged 33. The other possibilities are all in Yorkshire. Do we know exactly when/where in the 1850's he was born?

[dorcus]

Hi all I am not sure when he was born.On the 1881 census William is living with mary lofthouse 60 ann Pollitt 40 its says William is 26 and married there is also his siblings there too.It looks like he was born about 1855.Thanks Dorcus

[dorcus]

Hi all I am not sure when he was born.On the 1881 census William is living with mary lofthouse 60 ann Pollitt 40 its says William is 26 and married there is also his siblings there too.It looks like he was born about 1855.Thanks Dorcus.The 1881 census says Barton upon irwell

[Chrissie Smiff]

That death looks less likely then as he would have been about 28 not 33. Did people get divorced in those days?

[AntonyM]

Did people get divorced in those days?

Pre 1857, only by a special Act of Parliament.

After the Divorce and Matrimonial Causes Act of 1857 divorce did become available, on the sole ground of Adultery (for a man to divorce his wife...for a woman to divorce her husband she had to prove adultery AND an additional aggravating factor). Numbers of divorces were low, and if it did take place, it would expensive and not realistic for most people. There were a few hundred a year up until the law changed again in 1937.

If she had been deserted by her husband she may have felt free to remarry .... there was a legal presumption, developed about this time, that where "a spouse had not been heard of for 7 years , by those who could be expected to have heard from them, and inquiries had not discovered their whereabouts", it could be presumed that they had died, leaving a spouse free to remarry.

Did Mary Ann claim to be a widow at the time of her 2nd marriage in 1887 ?

[dorcus]

Hi Antony I don't know the answer to that question.All I have is the birth certificate of Mary ann Lofthouse nee Menzie,perhaps it may be one of the reasons you quoted as above. Thanks Dorcus

[Darksecretz]

if you haven't got it then you will need to buy the marriage cert in 1875 William>Mary Ann, this will then possibly [more than likely] give you Williams fathers name and occupation, also the witness' names might also hold clues to family members [as yet unknown.] not sure you can realistically track William without further info if I am honest!.

it will also give you Williams occupation too [trying to think on the wing and cook at the same time!]

[dorcus]

Thanks Julie will look into it
Regards Dorcus

[Janet in Yorkshire]

According to Lancs BMD, the marriage took place at Patricroft Christ Church Salford. The marriage cert will also give you William's age at the time of the marriage.

Jay

[dorcus]

Hi William 20 1855 married mary ann menzie 20 1st jan 1875 at Christ church patricroft -grooms father was James Lofthouse Then in 1887 mary ann it says Lofthouse married Thomas Baxendale at Wigan Register Office.I was wondering they may have been divorced as you were not allowed to marry in church unless your husband died (was that right). Dorcus

[dorcus]

Yes Janet i too looked there and also Family search.and found his age at the time of marriage

[JudithM]

Did Mary Ann claim to be a widow at the time of her 2nd marriage in 1887 ?

Hi Antony I don't know the answer to that question.All I have is the birth certificate of Mary ann Lofthouse nee Menzie,perhaps it may be one of the reasons you quoted as above. Thanks Dorcus

Hi William 20 1855 married mary ann menzie 20 1st jan 1875 at Christ church patricroft -grooms father was James Lofthouse Then in 1887 mary ann it says Lofthouse married Thomas Baxendale at Wigan Register Office.I was wondering they may have been divorced as you were not allowed to marry in church unless your husband died (was that right). Dorcus

I'm confused. If you know Mary Ann's 1887 marriage was at Wigan Register Office does this mean you have access to the register entry? In which case surely you can see if she claimed to be a widow?

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Judith,
I think perhaps Dorcus has found the second marriage on Lancs BMD. However it COULD have been EITHER at the registry office, OR with the registrar in attendance (non-C of E) I don't think you can say categorically it's one or the other without getting the cert or finding the speciific location cited in some other primary source????

Jay

[dorcus]

Hi Judith, janet is right i found the information on Lanc bmd Dorcus

[JudithM]

Ahh, I'd forgotten about LancBMD. No help there then, but in any case even if it does say widow on the marriage entry that wouldn't mean William was definitely dead. Could be that she presumed he was dead or that they had separated and she decided to pass herself off as widow rather than try for the extremely difficult and expensive divorce route. I guess the best bet is to track each William Lofthouse through the censuses and try to match them with any deaths.

[dorcus]

Thanks Judith Regards Dorcus

[Janet in Yorkshire]

As stated in post 15, the Lancs BMD site doesn't state for definite that Thomas and Mary married in the registry office; it could have been in a church or chapel with the registrar attending.

I know certs are expensive, but I think this one would be a worthwhile investment because
a) it will give you the definite venue
b) it will tell you the marital status Mary claimed
c) ditto for Thomas
(If I've found the right couple in 1891 census, there is a Sarah Baxendale born Wigan c 1885/6. There are 2 possible birth registrations - Mar 1885 & Dec 1886.)

Jay

[dorcus]

Mary AND tHOMAS did have children sarah, ellen,and martha.Mary and william had james lofthouse and Jane nora lofthouse.i sent for the marrage certificat for jane nora and where it said the fathers name it was not william lofthouse but Thomas Baxendale.I will sent for the certificate Janet.Searching family trees is an eye opener indeed. What puzzled me is when they registered jane noras birth why didnt they put her as baxendale. Dorcus