Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Need some help with illegitimate child

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Need some help with illegitimate child

    Hello all,
    My great aunt (Fanny) had a child (Minnie). Fanny became pregnant, either, while living in Liverpool, or was sent to Liverpool because she became pregnant.
    Fanny was born in Shropshire 17th Nov 1880 and Minnie was born abt 1897 in Liverpool. I know from Parish records in Minsterley Shropshire that Fanny had a second child who died age 3 months after the birth of Minnie.
    There is an entry in the Parish records stating "illegitimate child of Fanny Edwards Pauper funeral" the child was born at Shrewsbury workhouse.
    Fanny eventually returned to her parents house in Minsterley sometime after Minnie was born.
    I have searched for a birth certificate for Minnie and found the only record to match was this one: Sept quarter 1896 volume 8b page 246, I have the birth certificate, but the Mothers name is given as Mary Ann Edwards so i think its the wrong one for Minnie.
    I'd like to find Minnies fathers name,I've been led to believe this appears on a record of her Baptism and also what Fanny was doing in Liverpool.

    Fanny Census 1881: http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...dpidz0q257caid

    Minnie Census 1901:
    http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...try&h=13561237

    Thanks for any help

  • #2
    Originally posted by Jon E View Post
    I have searched for a birth certificate for Minnie and found the only record to match was this one: Sept quarter 1896 volume 8b page 246, I have the birth certificate, but the Mothers name is given as Mary Ann Edwards so i think its the wrong one for Minnie.
    Jon,
    How do you know that Minnie is the daughter of Fanny Edwards, and not the daughter of her elder sister Mary A Edwards (shown on 1881 census as being born 1874.
    Elaine







    Comment


    • #3
      looking at this it seems to me very probable that Minnie was Mary Anns daughter, do you have Mary in the 1911 cens? does she state how many children she has had?

      as Mary was living and working in Lancs seems more plausible to me that her daughter would be born liverpool.. also have you looked for a Minnie living with a mother of Mary Ann in the 1901 census?

      when was Fannys other child born and died please Jon..
      Julie
      They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

      .......I find dead people

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
        Jon,
        How do you know that Minnie is the daughter of Fanny Edwards, and not the daughter of her elder sister Mary A Edwards (shown on 1881 census as being born 1874.
        I don't! and until you pointed that out I'd just made the assumption that she was Fanny's child......note to self:avoid assuming things when dealing with your ancestry!!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
          looking at this it seems to me very probable that Minnie was Mary Anns daughter, do you have Mary in the 1911 cens? does she state how many children she has had?

          as Mary was living and working in Lancs seems more plausible to me that her daughter would be born liverpool.. also have you looked for a Minnie living with a mother of Mary Ann in the 1901 census?

          when was Fannys other child born and died please Jon..
          I don't have an entry for Mary Ann in the 1911 Census, but I can't say I've looked too hard as I've been barking up the wrong tree it would seem! Completely over looked Mary Ann, even with the birth certificate right in front of me.....Doh!
          Fanny's child was recorded in the Parish Records at Minsterley, I came across this record first and like a fool I didn't make a note of it.....However i have emailed the vicar(the records haven't been digitised and are still held at the Church) hopefully I'll be able to go back and get the date. Iirc, it was around 1904 but can't be sure.
          I'll now try to track down Mary Ann.....thanks both for pointing out the bleedin obvious to me;)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jon E View Post
            ......note to self:avoid assuming things when dealing with your ancestry!!
            .. very easily done!
            Elaine







            Comment


            • #7
              Jon, i wonder if this is your Mary Ann Edwards........

              Baptism: 17 Nov 1844 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
              Mary Ann Edwards - [Child] of William Edwards & Margaret
              Abode: Trueman St
              Occupation: Painter
              Baptised by: J G Headlam Curate
              Register: Baptisms 1843 - 1844, Page 371, Entry 2961
              Source: LDS Film 93884
              Jacky

              Comment


              • #8
                That's too early Jacky. We have her in the 1881 census - Mary A Edwards born c 1874 Minsterley, parents William and Judith.
                Elaine







                Comment


                • #9
                  Jon,

                  its always better to post something and let us try and help/rip it to shreds..[lol] but, the ONLY daft question is the one that WASN'T asked,

                  we don't criticise, what we do is to try and help people, we were all in this same boat at one time, and I know that I try and give back, to help others that have found this rather addictive habit! :smilee:
                  Julie
                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                  .......I find dead people

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
                    That's too early Jacky. We have her in the 1881 census - Mary A Edwards born c 1874 Minsterley, parents William and Judith.
                    http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...try&h=18277373
                    Oops..getting carried away...again...lol...sorry, Jon !
                    Jacky

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Okay.
                      Minnies birth certificate states the following.
                      Born:mid July 1896, 431 Smithdown Road, Liverpool,
                      Name: Minnie,
                      Sex: Girl,
                      Name of Father "blank",
                      Name surname and Maiden name of Mother: Mary Ann Edwards a Domestic Servant,
                      Signature description and residence of information:Mary Ann Edwards, Mother, Reabrook Minsterley Salop,as per declaration dated 22 December 1896
                      When Registered:Twenty Fifth September 1896

                      The address still exists which is nice but haven't found any Census results on Mary Ann yet other than the 1881 entry.
                      And as for the help I've received so far.I don't think I've ever been on such a helpful forum,,,,Brilliant
                      Last edited by Jon E; 16-12-12, 16:10.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ah Ha, found this http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...1_h23564102956
                        and this http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...&rhSource=6598

                        second one states she was born in Oswestry? typo?? or different person

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Jon
                          How about this one in 1891? -
                          Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Snap
                            Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              this is possibly her in 1901:



                              Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3322; Folio: 155; Page: 2.

                              :smilee:
                              Julie
                              They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                              .......I find dead people

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Darksecretz View Post
                                this is possibly her in 1901:

                                http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin...ki1901&indiv=1

                                Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3322; Folio: 155; Page: 2.

                                :smilee:
                                Looks like you could be right with that Julie age is a little out but I know what ladies are like when it comes to their age;). My second link above gives Oswestry as birth place which is a bit strange, thought it could be a typo but that link looks more probable.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  am still struggling to find her though in 1911, so she either marries or dies or is mistranscribed.. :smilee: I did notice too that her age was a little out, but, she might have told a fib or two in order to get the job!..
                                  Julie
                                  They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                  .......I find dead people

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Jon E View Post
                                    Okay.
                                    Minnies birth certificate states the following.
                                    Born:mid July 1896, 431 Smithdown Road, Liverpool,
                                    Name: Minnie,
                                    Sex: Girl,
                                    Name of Father "blank",
                                    Name surname and Maiden name of Mother: Mary Ann Edwards a Domestic Servant,
                                    Signature description and residence of information:Mary Ann Edwards, Mother, Reabrook Minsterley Salop,as per declaration dated 22 December 1896
                                    When Registered:Twenty Fifth September 1896

                                    The address still exists which is nice but haven't found any Census results on Mary Ann yet other than the 1881 entry.
                                    And as for the help I've received so far.I don't think I've ever been on such a helpful forum,,,,Brilliant
                                    oh, I wonder what the declaration was??? I have never seen anything like that on a b/cert before... do you have the cert scanned into your puter Jon? could we have a look at it, or if you like email a copy to me and i'll crop it and post on here.. so we see the relevant bits.. not unless the cert was altered for some reason and Mary Ann had to sign a declaration to say it was true? but she also gives her home address and not the address in Liverpool where she gave birth.. odd..
                                    Julie
                                    They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                    .......I find dead people

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Could she have had to make the declaration because it was over the 6 weeks before she registered the birth and doesn't appear to have given an exact date other than mid July?
                                      Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        ahhh I wonder...

                                        Events had to registered in the Registration District in which they had occurred. However the Act states
                                        Any person required by this Act to give information concerning a birth, who removes before such birth is registered out of the sub-district in which such birth has taken place, may, within three months after such birth, give the information by making and signing in the presence of the registrar of the sub-district in which he resides a declaration in writing of the particulars required to be registered concerning such birth; and such registrar *on payment of the appointed fee shall receive and attest the declaration and send the same to the registrar of the sub-district in which the birth took place
                                        Julie
                                        They're coming to take me away haha hee hee..........

                                        .......I find dead people

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X