Ireland/Scotland

[mismo]

Hi, this is a shot in the dark, but would there be an historical reason for an Irish family to move from Ireland to Scotland in the 1912-15 era. My grand parents married in co mayo 1912, but three years later my father was born in Glasgow, they eventually settled in Liverpool, I dont know when this move took place though.

[Uncle John]

Seafaring / shipbuilding / better wages? A move from Glasgow to Liverpool suggests something to do with ships.

[Elaine ..Spain]

Could the move have been occupation related - do you know your grandfather's occupation?

.. and welcome to Family Tree Forum!

[mismo]

Thank you to both of you, that could be where I need to start looking, I'm afraid I dont know much about any of them yet.

[Janet]

A cheaper crossing from Belfast to Stranraer? Maybe it was safer to cross there than in the South, as crossing in the South was more open to the German U Boats from 1914 onwards once the First W War started. Don't forget that the Lusitania was sunk off the Cork coast by German U Boats 1915.

Janet

[lennon2011]

It may also have been a Mining family.. My own relatives did that themselves.

[mismo]

Thank you, interesting concepts and worth looking into.

[clematised]

Did the marriage cert have an occupaton for your grandfather, or perhaps the 1911 Irish Census (free to view)
Liverpool did not have mining but shipping would be a good possibility.

Edna

[Janet]

Mining may not have been in Liverpool but it was certainly in nearby St Helens, however somebody coming from Ireland, where there is no Mining, is unlikely to be going into the mining industry!

He might have joined the army, so any occupation is quite likely until you have proof from a census/marriage certificate. Many Irishmen joined the army for the First World War

Janet

[clematised]

Mining may not have been in Liverpool but it was certainly in nearby St Helens, however somebody coming from Ireland, where there is no Mining, is unlikely to be going into the mining industry!

He might have joined the army, so any occupation is quite likely until you have proof from a census/marriage certificate. Many Irishmen joined the army for the First World War

Janet

If you live in St Helens you never claim to be from Liverpool and likewise, I was born Liverpool so NO mines in Liverpool

Edna

[Elwyn]

If you look at the Scottish censuses around Glasgow for 1901 and 1911 you’ll see that about 10% of the population were born in Ireland. Huge numbers of Irish people went there at that time for work in the shipyards, railways, steel making plants, chemical industries and in the coal and shale mines. (There were plenty of Irish men who became miners). Remember that Ireland has practically no natural resources eg oil, coal, iron ore etc, and so the industrial revolution largely passed it by. Very few new jobs there. And in rural Mayo there was little but subsistence farming.

So your ancestors will have left Ireland for economic reasons, to get better paid work in Britain. As to why they went to Glasgow, I obviously can’t point to a single definite explanation but often someone from the same neighbourhood had already gone, and wrote back telling of job opportunities. And that way they’d have somewhere to stay for a night or two till they got on their feet. It’ll likely have been that sort of reason.

[Janet]

Edna,

I was not trying to doubt you. I do know there are no mines in Liverpool because my OH was also born Liverpool. I was merely pointing out that there really is no point in guessing what occupation this person could have because it could be anything. Most people left Ireland for work in England/Scotland for many economic reasons, and there were many occupations they could have taken up. My OH's grandparents emigrated to Liverpool from Ireland and ran pubs along the Scottie Road.

It is a well known fact that many Irish people went from Larne to Stranraer as it was the shortest and cheapest sea crossing from Ireland to Scotland, so they might have taken jobs in Glasgow or other parts of Scotland first before moving on to another big city like Liverpool for something else. I just dio not think you can second guess what that job might have been.


I see that Elwyn above is making a similar point.

Janet

[mismo]

No the marriage certificate states Date, place, both fathers and two witnesses, I never met my grand parents and my father never spoke much of his family, he is now dececead and I know of no living relatives, if only you thought as a child to wonder about these things. Where can I view the 1911 Irish cencus please.

[mismo]

Possible, he seems to have vanished, I don't think he was around when my father was growing up, so may have been killed in action.

[Elaine ..Spain]

Link to the Irish census - 1901 and 1911

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/

[mismo]

Oh clematised, Liverpool did have mining, The jam butty mines-Diddy men,

[mismo]

Link to the Irish census - 1901 and 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/

Thank you that was quick.

[mismo]

Thank you all, you've certainly given me food for thought and some leads to look into. I'm sorry I should have replied to you all with quotes, I will get the hang of this.

[Janet]

I am very surprised that your Irish Marriage Certificate of 1912 does not state occupations of groom as well as occupations of fathers of bride and groom. The Irish Marriage Certificates that I have for the 1870's states occupations of groom and occupations of fathers of both bride and groom although a little indstinct at time but the occupations are stated.

Janet

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I am very surprised that your Irish Marriage Certificate of 1912 does not state occupations of groom as well as occupations of fathers of bride and groom. The Irish Marriage Certificates that I have for the 1870's states occupations of groom and occupations of fathers of both bride and groom although a little indstinct at time but the occupations are stated.

Janet

Yes, I would agree with Janet - Ireland was still part of the UK and I would have expected the certs to have similar information recorded.

Jay