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Witness a Marriage age 12?

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  • Witness a Marriage age 12?

    Transcribing a Liverpool Church marriage in 1909, one of the witnesses writes, 'Mark Dowd 12'....................either the 12 is of no significance or it's perfectly acceptable for a child to witness a marriage.................I dont know the answer but I'm sure someone out there does. Neither the Bride or Groom share the name of Dowd.

  • #2
    Quoted from our reference library - Certificates page

    Witnesses should be known to the couple. Often they would be family members or neighbours. The witnesses may be siblings of the bride or groom (possibly unknown family members whom you discover at a later date) or they may be younger members of the family who seem too young to be a witness. The age of a witness is often a cause for concern among researchers. Ages are not quoted and there is no lower age limit - the witness just has to be able to function as a witness.
    Elaine







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    • #3
      Spot on Elaine.......................thank you.

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      • #4
        I agree that the age is of no significance but in this case, perhaps Mark Dowd was one of several Mark Dowds, lol and thought it important to distinguish which one he was.

        Actually - I didn't know that the witnesses had to know the couple. I had rather thought they could drag in someone off the street or even that church officials could act as witnesses - they certainly have done with lots of mine. As it says up there, the purpose of a witness is to witness that an event takes place.

        OC

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        • #5
          I have a 6yr old who (along with 3 adults) was witness to a marriage in 1853, it doesn't say so but I know her to be the groom's youngest sister.

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          • #6
            If you consider the question it will be apparent there is a good reason to choose a young person as a witness rather than an old or older person.
            If there is a question raised about the marriage within a few weeks or even a few years there will be plenty of witnesses to the event who could be called upon to bear witness.
            If however a question was raised about the marriage on the death of a spouse many years later it is very possible that the older witnesses will have died but a young witness will still be alive.
            Cheers
            Guy
            Guy passed away October 2022

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            • #7
              From my own tree - my parents marriage was witnessed by my uncle. At the time my parents were 21 and my uncle was 13. This was in the 1940's

              Guy - I hadn't thought of that previously
              Barbara

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Elaine ..Spain View Post
                Quoted from our reference library - Certificates page
                Unfortunately the certificates page contains errors.

                Age Until 1929 there was an anomaly between civil and ecclesiastical law. The dates given are for civil law but ecclesiastical law set no lower limit on a marriage. The child only had to be old enough to make a rational decision (which could be as low as 4 years old).

                Parental Consent : Parental consent was only required between the years 1753 and 1823. In all other times parental consent was advisable but not required.
                If however a parent had refused consent and the person conducting the ceremony knew of such refusal the marriage was void. Such a refusal of consent is different than consent not being sought.

                A witness does not have to be known to the couple.
                The witness witnesses that the marriage took place in the correct manner there is no requirement that he/she knows the couple.
                Cheers
                Guy
                Guy passed away October 2022

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                • #9
                  The whole area of what was an absolute legal requirement for a valid marriage (actually very little) is quite complex and often not what we thought.... I highly recommend "Marriage Law for Genealogists" by Rebecca Probert to anyone interested in the subject.

                  The author also recently gave a very good short talk on the subject at TNA, which I attended and which is available to listen to via a podcast.
                  Retired professional researcher, and ex- deputy registrar, now based in Worcestershire. Happy to give any help or advice I can ( especially on matters of civil registration) - contact via PM or my website www.chalfontresearch.co.uk
                  Follow me on Twittter @ChalfontR

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                  • #10
                    Or one could read the original Acts of Parliament which set out the law.
                    Transcripts of many Acts ofPparliament of interest to genealogists may be found on my website at

                    Cheers
                    Guy
                    Guy passed away October 2022

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Guy View Post
                      Unfortunately the certificates page contains errors.

                      Age Until 1929 there was an anomaly between civil and ecclesiastical law. The dates given are for civil law but ecclesiastical law set no lower limit on a marriage. The child only had to be old enough to make a rational decision (which could be as low as 4 years old).

                      Parental Consent : Parental consent was only required between the years 1753 and 1823. In all other times parental consent was advisable but not required.
                      If however a parent had refused consent and the person conducting the ceremony knew of such refusal the marriage was void. Such a refusal of consent is different than consent not being sought.

                      A witness does not have to be known to the couple.
                      The witness witnesses that the marriage took place in the correct manner there is no requirement that he/she knows the couple.
                      Cheers
                      Guy
                      Thank you Guy, we will get the page updated a.s.a.p.
                      Caroline
                      Caroline's Family History Pages
                      Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

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