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Clara's death - help UPDATE #626

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  • Originally posted by Chrissie Smiff View Post
    I thought you had already sent for the Clara L Heath though Steven? I'm sure we discussed it ages ago. Too many pages to wade through though. What a pity you can't search a thread for specific words

    You can next to thread tools is a search option just enter what you are looking for - we did discuss it earlier and it looks like it got lost in the melee!

    Margaret
    Last edited by margaretmarch; 25-01-12, 20:05.

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    • Oh now I'm feeling worried. I have a vague recollection that there was one that I said I thought I had found the marriage for and it wasn't her. What if I was wrong and it was another Clara L, or she had married again in between :o
      Last edited by Chrissie Smiff; 25-01-12, 20:07.
      Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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      • We've had so many options to look at with this one it has been difficult to keep up!
        Margaret

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        • Originally posted by Chrissie Smiff View Post
          In case she remarried I decided to try and check as many possible marriages as possible. I started with Clara L (Llian/Lillian/Lily etc) Ward as there are less to check than just Clara. In case anyone else is doing the same I have so far discounted the two before 1911 as they turned out to be too young. After 1911 they become just Clara L but they are mostly in unlikely areas. The only other two are in 1933 in Gravesend and Hitchin. Next to check will be Clara Ward marriages but I think I'll have to stick to Essex for those or I shall still be doing them this time next boxing day

          I have also been trying to find a likely marriage for the death of Clara L Heath in Ilford in 1942 born c1868. Have we checked this one before? I haven't finished looking yet but haven't found the most likely marriage for her yet.

          Only telling you all this in case I am repeating something that has already been done. So please stop me if it has
          p.s. Or if you think it is a pointless exercise for some reason.
          This is where we got to with Clara L Heath and I couldn't see her in 1911 under that name, I also looked for James Heath in 1901 and earlier in case it was him she was living with in 1911 and he took her name.

          We stopped looking for her after this as Steve was concentrating his search elsewhere.

          Margaret

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          • Looking at Clara's age on the 1911 it calculates to 1873 as year of birth as she has made herself younger on that basis here is another death that might be right

            Clara L Allen
            Birth Date: abt 1873
            Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1943
            Age at Death: 70
            Registration district: Essex South Western
            Inferred County: Essex
            Volume: 4a
            Page: 180

            Off to see if I can discount it.

            Margaret

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            • No sign of Clara L Allen on the 1911. Just going to look at Clara without the L.
              Margaret

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              • Oh thank you for finding that Margaret It must have been another one I thought I had found a likely marriage for phewww.
                Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

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                • Thanks Margaret and thanks Chrissie. I took a gamble and ordered the death certificate for Clara Heath tonight fingers crossed.

                  Clara Allen could be an option Margaret I will have a look too to see if I can discount it also

                  I think with the Clara Heath I decided to concentrate on the Wards, Pettits and Rolfe's first and then had a mind to come back to it. My hope is that she maybe didn't marry (as no marriage can be found) but maybe took a partners surname

                  Steven

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                  • I think that's the most likely and maybe the man wasn't with her when your relative knew Clara but she kept his name anyway as that would have been easier.

                    Haven't been able to look at any more Clara Allen entries just yet as OH needed me to do some stuff for him - what a cheek when I've got this to do !! LOL

                    Margaret

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                    • Hi folks just a quick update - no sign of the Clara Heath certificate yet but hopefully will get it next week

                      I spent ages over the weekend looking at the ER's on ancestry but no luck yet. I now know that she isn't with thew McKanna's in 1939 or with Isabel Smith (Rolfe) so I have been concentrating on two of the other daughters Hilda and Grace (aka Dolly)

                      As per Moggie's earlier post "Hilda M Ward married Maurice Fitzgerald 1923 Mile End Old Town
                      2 daughters born Lambeth B.H in 1924 I think she has since died but won't put her full name in case I am wrong. G.M in 1927 I think she may have died as a baby.
                      Too many Maurice Fitzgeralds to pinpoint his death.
                      Hilda M Fitzgerald married Henry Hale 1956 West Ham.
                      Hilda Margery Hale ( born 25th May 1904) died Dec 1988 Newham. I think Newham previously covered the areas of East & West Ham.
                      Not having much luck with Rose, the problem being she was registered with the middle name Agnes but on the Children's Society records it gives both Agnes & Mary as her middle name. She too could have been married twice or even three times.
                      Moggie"

                      I spent ages looking for Hilda Fitzgerald and then Hilda Hale but no luck and am now looking for

                      Grace (Dolly) Phillips and her husband David Phillips

                      My thoughts are maybe Clara was living with another daughter. NO luck so far but will keep looking

                      Steven

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                      • is it at all possible she may have been killed in the bombing raids by the germans? are there lists of people who where missing etc?

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                        • I would think civilian deaths would have been recorded in the normal way and given Clara had family it's unlikely she would have been listed as unknown as I imagine some people might have been if they were out and about without identification. Although having said that I think people had identity cards in those days.

                          Margaret

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                          • They certainly were - and generally are recorded on CWGC too

                            Not sure if it's been mentioned elsewhere - but Deceased Online have recently added Newham Council records - West Ham Cemetery - it's pay to view - but the search is quite useful

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                            • Hi Steven
                              Just been looking at Deceased online & Clara Louisa Allen was buried 18th Jan 1943 at West Ham cemetery so that rules her out. Hilda was also buried at West Ham cemetery on 19th Dec 1988.
                              Moggie

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                              • Thanks kylejustin, Margaret and Sue thats some good information

                                Thanks for looking that up moggie - it certainly looks as though Clara Allen can be ruled out and I might try to see if the cemetery can see if there is a headstone for Hilda to see if there are any clues on it. It might also be worth seeing if I can find out where Ethel Elizabeth is buried for the same reason. She died in Southwark in 1968 so I will have to see what cemeteries are there
                                Steven
                                Last edited by stevie2006; 29-01-12, 14:27.

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                                • There is one other person buried with Hilda, possibly her husband Henry Hale.
                                  Burial for a Henry Hale at West Ham on 5th Sept 1994, he too has one other person buried with him.
                                  Burial entry from index Henry Hale born 9th Jan 1915, death reg Tower Hamlets Aug 1994.
                                  Moggie

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                                  • Thanks moggie for the information

                                    Some potentially NEW information received tonight via an email from Amanda - Clara MAY have been married again after Charles died in 1905 - Amanda said

                                    "now this may be something or nothing but dad has been having another look through some paperwork (i wish i had seen this last time i went, shall have a look next time) and he was saying that clara did marry again after charles died in 1905.

                                    i'm getting confused now but he mentioned aunt may (mabel?) and that her name was driscoll (sp?) could this be the next link in your info? whether driscoll was may's married name or her maiden name after her father i couldn't fathom.

                                    i'm still looking at that 1911 census though that you mailed me with a james ward being head with clara etc as hisfamily......strange.

                                    anyway, thought i would throw this snippet your way"

                                    THis could mean that the 1911 census was right after all or maybe she was just living with this James and married later. The problem is that I cannot find a second marriage but any help would be greatly appreciated. I do know that Charles died in 1905 so it has to be after that. The 1911 census said she had bee married 3 years

                                    Steven

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                                    • If she had really married James Ward then we would have found her death under that name but I think she married someone else or James name was not Ward!

                                      We haven't found a marriage for her in any event so it might have been simply a 'common law' one where they did not register it.

                                      Margaret

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                                      • but amanda may visit her father, and sight the documents he has, therefore he may have a nugget he hasn't realised yet!

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                                        • Another update from Amanda

                                          "What I meant to say with DRISCOLL, is that dad thinks that may have been the surname of clara's 2nd husband after Charles died. He remembers an Aunt May (possily Mabel??) and her surname was Driscoll, a child of Clara and 2nd hubby?"

                                          I had a look through ancestry and have 2 potentials

                                          1. Clara Driscoll died Bromley Kent in apr/may/june 1968 - year of birth given as 1866 and

                                          2. Clara Driscoll died Chelmsford, Essex in jan/feb/march 1947 - year of birth a bit out at 1874 but she was ecomical with her age on 1911 census

                                          There is a 3rd death in Stepney but I think its too early at 1933

                                          Cannot find a marriage yet but what do you think about these potential deaths?

                                          Steven

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