Wanna swap lookups ??

[Val wish Id never started]

I think I exhausted all the options I can think of so wondered if anybody is bored with theirs we can trade ???
I'm not expecting miracles

Miriam Rebecca Guttentag/Rose born 1870 Mile End
She is unmarried on the 1901 census living with her Parents Abraham (who has now become Mark) and Esther living in Hackney
1911 census living in Devonshire Street Mile End
has a Minnie Macks Widow occupation Cap finisher aged 35 born Mile End married 7 years with son Charles aged 3 born Hackney
She was born in 1870 so it is the wrong age
Got her Death Cert she died in 1933 aged 62 ,which is correct, in Bancroft Lodge Workhouse Mile End
says Miriam Rebecca Macks otherwise known as Minnie Mack Widow of Charles George Macks the informant is her Son

I am looking for her Marriage and her Husbands Birth or Death (does says Diver as occupation) so maybe died diving ?? also the Sons Birth


ANYTHING WOULD BE APPRECIATED THANKS

[Little Nell]

1911 she could have lied about her age?

[Lin Fisher]

There's a Charles Edward Mack born Jun 1908 St Olave.

Not sure where it is but put London in the search.

[Lin Fisher]

The only Charles George I could find a birth for was MACK again.

Sep 1858 St Giles. Did a search for the whole country.

Also looked under Max but no luck.

[Val wish Id never started]

hi and thanks for your replies Nell I know she lied its defintely her
Lin I did see him and wondered about him ?? and thats the only one I could find thats of course if he was born here ???
Would either of you say that the death I found could be the son ???

oops whats the swap then ??

[Lin Fisher]

On her death cert what does it say what her sons full name is?

No swap needed at the mo but will remember if I want some help soon!!

[Val wish Id never started]

Charles Mack is all it says

[perth tiger]

hi val
iv had a look at this today while iv been rained off.
what a family the rose family seem to be.
they do throw up a few questions though.
if we take it that the miriam rebecca you have in 1911 is the one born in mile end in 1870 have you followed her backwards.
if you go back to 1861 you find abraham and esther with hyam david. next door is a family called lazarus, with a lydia lazarus 38 living there unmarried and the daughter of the head isaac.
in 1871 abraham's wife is called susan, all the children with them fit what are on the bmd. but lydia lazarus is living with them and shown as been the mother living on ind means.
in 1881 it is still abraham and susan and the first 3 children have changed their names to more english ones.
in 1891 susan is now shown as been the sister in law, lydia is the mother in law now
finally in 1901 abraham seems to have changed his name to mark and susan is back to esther. after 30-40 years of getting their and their childrens ages right they get them all wrong.
to cloud it even more look at the marriages that are available for abraham.
in 1860 there is a marriage for abraham isaac gottantag to esther joel but there is also a marriage in 1857 for abraham rose to susan joel.
i cant find anyone that even goes close to matching the joel's, and their supposed mother is never as far as i can see called joel or lives with anyone except her father until 1861.

do you trust anything that is recorded about them?

what certs have you got for her other than her death, do you have any of her family's certs.

atb

perth

[Val and George]

Could Esther and Susan have been sisters and he married the other when the first wife died?

*** if so, then maybe he just kept forgetting which sister he was married to***

[Lin Fisher]

I thougth last night about name changes.

Did you read any of the Hospital Records thread on Adoption? They had a lot of the names Perth Tiger put up for you and were forever changing their names.

If some of the people who helped there see this they will be able to help you better than I can.