Latin Translation - can anyone help please?

[Olde Crone Holden]

Most Workhouses at that time had provision for the insane. Her occupation is a very telling one - lead poisoning can lead to insanity, or to such mental confusion that it was mistaken for insanity.

Yes, I wondered if it was David who died, but that makes the entry even odder...why record the death of a man and record the fact that his wife was insane?

OC

[Mary from Italy]

Most Workhouses at that time had provision for the insane. Her occupation is a very telling one - lead poisoning can lead to insanity, or to such mental confusion that it was mistaken for insanity.

That's assuming Ellen's the right person, which she may not be - there isn't an Ellen White aged 77 registered among the 1874 deaths,

Yes, I wondered if it was David who died, but that makes the entry even odder...why record the death of a man and record the fact that his wife was insane?

The words with the masculine ending are "died" and "detained".

[KiteRunner]

There is an Eliza White wife of David at Bromley St Leonard in 1871:

No. 28 Burnham Street
David White Head Mar 40 Riviter Hampshire
Eliza White Wife 37 Sussex
John Do Son 2 Essex

[Mary from Italy]

That word nomini's annoying me - it doesn't sound right at all. I'm sure it ought to be a mistranscription for widow, but my dictionary says that's vidua, which looks nothing like nomini.

[Mary from Italy]

Ah, well done, Kite - I'd been looking for an Eliza with a David, and missed them.

[Roger in Sussex]

Is it not most unlikely that the death of anyone dying on 31st March would be registered in March quarter?

I agree with OC, that the original PR very likely mentions the lady earlier than the entry we are talking about. Do we know the date of the earlier entry? If, for example, it records a burial date for her earlier than 31st March 1874, then it can surely only have been David who was insane and died on that date? Might it have something to do with a contested will?

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

There is an Eliza White wife of David at Bromley St Leonard in 1871:

No. 28 Burnham Street
David White Head Mar 40 Riviter Hampshire
Eliza White Wife 37 Sussex
John Do Son 2 Essex

So, is that the David who died in 1874 aged 45?

[Mary from Italy]

Can't see a death for her, though.

[Mary from Italy]

So, is that the David who died in 1874 aged 45?

Ooh, could be.

[Roger in Sussex]

That word nomini's annoying me - it doesn't sound right at all. I'm sure it ought to be a mistranscription for widow, but my dictionary says that's vidua, which looks nothing like nomini.

Another possibility would be relicta, but that doesn't look much like nomini either. However, the first word is Uxor which rather implies her husband was still alive.

[Olde Crone Holden]

We are assuming the latin numerals refer to a date, but, don't laugh, could they refer to "cause 77", being some kind of ecclesiastical law? I'm still considering divorce here.

OK, I'll go to bed, shall I?

OC

[KiteRunner]

I do have at least one death certificate in my collection where the death was registered on the same day as it occurred.

[Mary from Italy]

We are assuming the latin numerals refer to a date, but, don't laugh, could they refer to "cause 77", being some kind of ecclesiastical law? I'm still considering divorce here.

Actually something similar had occurred to me - the phrase is insania causa which means on the ground of insanity, but I did wonder if it was some kind of mental health classification (on the ground of insanity, type 77). I don't think anything of the kind existed in 1874, though

[Mary from Italy]

So if 77 wasn't the age of either party, maybe it was a period of days. And the only reason I can think of why the vicar would go to all the trouble of mentioning it is that Eliza got pregnant while David was in the asylum...

[Olde Crone Holden]

I agree with Kate, and furthermore, if the death occurred in the Workhouse, I am sure the Master would be most punctilious in rapidly reporting events to the Registrar, who might indeed wait for workhouse returns before he compiled his report to send off to the GRO.

Do we have a date for this remark in the register?

OC

[Olde Crone Holden]

Hmmm... there IS a "Matrimonial Causes Act 77" which was in existence certainly earlier than 1877.

Just drilling down to find out what it actually was....

OC

[Roger in Sussex]

Having slept on it, I have had two further thoughts.

1. After uxor, one tends to expect a note of the huband's name in the genitive case, and I dozily took nomini to be the genitive of nomen, but that would in fact have been nominis.:o

2. So what might be mistranscribed as nomini? Well, this is a complete shot in the dark, but could it possibly have been domini? It would certainly help to explain the Vicar's caution in putting his comments into Latin if he was talking about aristocracy. And the original meaning of asylum was a place of refuge, not necessarily a public institution. Should we be looking for a Sir David White?

It really does need a look at an image of the original to sort this out properly.

[Bethanys Gran]

Blimey - I wandered off to do something else and missed all this wonderful input!

THANK YOU!!!!!

I am really grateful to you for all your work - you are all stars!

I have the micro fiche of the actual register, but it is not that easy to read. It's from the Parish of Rustington in West Sussex.

Thank you all again.

[KiteRunner]

Ooh, that Eliza White I found in 1871 was born in Sussex!

*puts two and two together and makes six*

[Mary from Italy]

I haven't found that Eliza, her husband David, or their son John, in 1881 - can anyone else see them? I wonder if Eliza remarried and John took her new husband's name.

David was a rivetter, and it does seem odd that the vicar would go to so much trouble over a relatively humble person, but it also seems unlikely that domini would be mistranscribed as nomini.

Bethanysgran, could you photograph or scan the entry from the parish register? As Roger says, we really need to see it, because it's very difficult for someone who doesn't know Latin to transcribe it.