WW1 Death cert???

[Penelope]

Redacted

[Velma Dinkley]

Sorry I don't know the answer Penelope, hopefully someone on here does. Otherwise you will probably get the answer on Great War Forum (Powered by Invision Power Board) as there's plenty of experts on there.

Sorry to be noisy, but how did you find out in the 1990s?

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

So - just wondering, if it's different when someone who dies in action, but their body is recovered and the day they die is immediately recorded as their date date? How does that differ from someone like my great uncle, who was only reported missing at the time? How and when did they issue death certificates? Or were the only issued after the war? Just curious as to whether there's a difference between a man known to be killed in action on the day - and a man who was technically 'missing in action'?

A very good question!

I have two WW1 death certs. Both have issue dates the same year as the death, but not soon after (ie before the armistice), but it was known exactly what happened to the men concerned. (died of wounds in both cases)

However, another man was missing in September 1915, but he wasn't recorded as killed in action until Feb 1920. His army record states that his date of death could only be guessed at, but the CWGC has his date of death as the date he went missing. (There were reports at the time that he had been taken prisoner). It would be interesting to see what is on this death cert, but I have no real reason to get it apart from curiosity!

[Penelope]

Redacted

[Velma Dinkley]

Well it's arrived!!

He's down as Horace William Guilford, although there's no Horace's on the CWGC's website who died on 21st January 1918, served in the Rifle Brigade no S/32112, so it's definitely him, although it says died in France... perhaps it was around the border or yet another mistake??....

Cause of death: Died of wounds, so that was recorded wrong too

I really would like to find out the date he was injured and what his injuries were. His service records aren't on Ancestry, could they be at TNA? Would records still exist for the hospital at Lijssenthoek?

[Lyn A]

Velma, this looks like his Army records.....

UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919 - Ancestry.com


Edit: Sorry...not his records (even though that is what I searched), but I haven't deleted it just in case you don't have it already.

[Velma Dinkley]

Unfortunately, that's just his entry on the 'Soldiers who died in the Great War' list. It's spelt his name incorrectly and as well as recording that he was 'killed in action'. After seeing this I assumed that he had, until I saw the war diary for the day he died and his battalion were training away from the front with no casualities reported on the day he died, which made me question it and order the death cert

UPDATE Sorry I've just seen your updated comment. His medal card is on there too, but no service record.

[Lyn A]

Yes that was weird, I searched the 1914-1920 British Army records and that was the only entry that popped up. It was only after I had posted it that I noticed that it was only one page, so had a look at it. I never knew that there was a list of those who died...never looked for one.

[Lyn A]

I think that Killed in Action refers to anyone who was wounded & died...whether they died straight away or not. In fact I know that here in NZ, two airmen fell from a plane on a training flight over NZ...nowhere near the action. They are officially listed as KIA.

[Velma Dinkley]

Thanks Lyn, I guess that's an easy way to record it, without having to explain the individual circumstances.

I've just been re-reading the war diary a kind member of Great War Forum gave to me and on 16th January 1918, 5 days before he died, they were the victims of 'friendly fire' with 6 'other ranks' injured - was he one of them? Hopefully I can get to the bottom of this. I've posted on GWF too.

Ironically, he was a chef at the Royal Arsenal in Woolwich before the war...

[JayG]

Thanks for posting that Velma.

I think I might have to order the cert for mine.

Like you, I got the war diary hoping to find out what happened as his records don't appear to have survived.

Does it just say died in France or at a hospital?

Cheers

Jay

[Velma Dinkley]

It just says France, Jay, although he died in Belgium, which left me wondering whether it was near the border!

Here's my thread on the Great War Forum Charles William Guilford, Rifle Brigade - Great War Forum where I've been helped by the wonderful experts on there. I'm so hoping that I haven't hit a brick wall on this one, but if no records can be found that may be the case...