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18thC Brick Walls?

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  • 18thC Brick Walls?

    Redacted

  • #2
    Have you tried looking for wills of relatives of the possible mothers for Judith?

    I have a few Judiths in my tree and the name Judah is sometimes used as a variant but you probably know that already.
    KiteRunner

    Every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good... laugh"
    (Indigo Girls, "Watershed")

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    • #3
      Have you tried the local Records Office to see if they have anything in the Poor Law records?

      If the family was reasonably well off there wouldn't necessarily be a bastardy or settlement order, but with a bit of luck they might have the apprenticeship deed, which should name his father, or at least the master and the person who paid for the apprenticeship.

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      • #4
        Penelope

        I have a similar situation in my tree, but "know" everything.

        Eldest daughter of Thomas Green, (Ellen) gives birth to an illegitimate child in the 1700s. The Vicar normally wrote "bastard" next to any illegitimate child, but not this one. The register reads:

        (Bap) Thomas Green son of Ellen Green of Gawsworth.

        In the margin, he has written

        "and the natural grandson of Mr Thomas Green"

        Now this speaks volumes to me. Mr Thomas Green, was the current head of a very old farming family in the area, a Yeoman. He was also a churchwarden, and paid part of the Vicar's stipend.

        At some later point, someone has written very faintly over the baptism "and John Moreton, father".

        Ellen did not marry John Moreton. Neither did she claim parish relief, nor issue a bastardy bond. She didn't need to. Her family were wealthy and "above" the reach of the church, which could not harm them in any practical way.

        In this case, the Vicar either did not wish to offend an influential family, who held his living in their grip, or else he was "persuaded" by Thomas Green not to enter his first grandson as either illegitimate or a bastard!

        The Moretons were an equally dug-in family, yeoman farmers again. John Moreton went on to marry another farmer's daughter. Ellen later married..a farmer's son!

        The point of all this woffle above - Yeoman farmers, or even just landed farmers, were in a unique position in rural parishes. They had the upper hand over the church to an extent and never had any pressing need to have a daughter married off for the sake of respectability. Even with several illegitimate children, she would be a good practical catch for abnother farmer's son and would no doubt bring a nice consoling dowry with her.

        In your case, sounds to me like the Vavasours are involved - this was a typical pay-off for the illegitimate sons of the gentry, to apprentice them to a trade. You might be able to find apprenticeship papers if you look in the "parish chest" records which will give you a clue, by the wording if not by names mentioned - a poor law apprenticeship will be for fourteen years, not seven, for instance.

        I have Vavasours in my tree, mixed up with the Holdens, in Yorkshire. The Vavasours were covert Roman Catholics. Maybe yours were too, some of mine were and I ASSUME that the daughters were baptised as Catholics as they don't appear in the parish church records, although the sons do.

        A final thought - some of these very old farms were originally manors, and as such had private chapels. These were often used to baptise daughters and it was hit and miss whether the fact ever got recorded in the official registers - certainly not, if the ceremony was a Roman Catholic one!

        OC

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        • #5
          Wait a minute, though - how can you be sure that Hepton was the name she was born with? Could it be a married name?

          Originally posted by Penelope View Post

          In 1784, she had an illegitimate son, Paul Hepton. At that point she is described as Judith Hepton of Foggathrope - Foggathorpe is a small hamlet, little more than one farhouse, in Bubwith parish.
          Does this come from the baptism register? Does it actually describe her as a single woman?

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          • #6
            Have you been able to exclude this baptism? (IGI, extracted entry)

            JUDITH HEPTON
            Female

            Event(s):
            Birth:
            Christening: 12 AUG 1751 Appleby, Lincoln, England

            Death:
            Burial:

            Parents:
            Father: WILLIAM HEPTON
            Mother: ANN

            Appleby's about 40 miles from Bubwith. Might be worth tracing William's ancestry to see if there's a Bubwith connection.

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            • #7
              According to the NBI Judith SMITH age 69 was buried on 1st April 1820 at Bubwith. This would make her birth year c1751 so the baptism entry found above could be for her.
              Moggie

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              • #8
                Same baptism batch C026561 has same parents with son John, baptised 08 Aug 1752, a possible brother.

                The marriage batches go up to 1836 but there are no Heptons on it, so quite likely Judith moved to Bubwith. There may have been a family connection. I do have poorer female relatives often working as nursemaids/housemaids to richer relatives.
                ~ with love from Little Nell~
                Chowns, Dunt, Emms, Mealing, Purvey & Smoothy

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                • #9
                  Redacted

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                  • #10
                    If you can do, looking at ALL the wills for the village might prove useful. I have found natural children acknowledged and all sorts of complex relationships revealed in that way. Those not C of E would try to get wills proved in higher courts so that the village would not know their business.
                    Phoenix - with charred feathers
                    Researching Skillings from Norfolk, Sworn from Salisbury and Adams in Malborough, Devon.

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                    • #11
                      I forgot to say - I think some Vicars gave the couple a chance to marry before branding the child illegitimate and some times I suspect "illegitimate" wasn't written in until it came to writing up the BTs.

                      Not that that helps you at all of course. I think Phoenix has a good idea - the Wills of the wider village community are often very informative. I have one where a wealthy man left the bulk of his estate to two apparent strangers, with no indication of why - but they turned out to be his illegitimate children.

                      OC

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                      • #12
                        Any families around with the surname Paul? (There are some about in East Yorkshire.)
                        Janet in Yorkshire



                        Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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