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Can you find the first marriage?

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  • #21
    UJ

    If we have mutual Riddells, I'm just leading you gently into the lower classes, lol!

    OC

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    • #22
      UJ do you know there were no other children earlier than those you mentioned? Why do you think they married in 1905 if the first child wasn't born until 1909?

      I wonder if Mary was born a Ridd* or maybe her birth name was Woodburn?

      When do we get the 1911 census??!

      UPDATE:

      Is this a child of theirs too?

      Births Jun 1908
      Lishman Rowland Tynemouth 10b 264

      Deaths Jun 1908
      LISHMAN Rowland 0 Tynemouth 10b 129
      Last edited by Merry Monty Montgomery; 28-11-08, 10:14.

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      • #23
        Annoyingly, that chap I mentioned in post #2, Charles Henry Woodburn Riddell, doesn't seem to exist other than for that entry. Nothing on any census, no death, no other Ridd* or Woodburn entries in Wincanton District. Absolutely ziltch. :(

        I thought if I could find him I could either eliminate his family, or discover he had a sister called Mary who was registered without the middle name.

        You said Mary Woodburn Lishman died in 2004. Did she drop her middle name, or did she die out of England/Wales? I couldn't find her death.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
          UJ do you know there were no other children earlier than those you mentioned? Why do you think they married in 1905 if the first child wasn't born until 1909?

          Taking other people's word for it. :(

          I wonder if Mary was born a Ridd* or maybe her birth name was Woodburn?

          Now there's a thought.

          UPDATE:

          Is this a child of theirs too?

          Births Jun 1908
          Lishman Rowland Tynemouth 10b 264

          Deaths Jun 1908
          LISHMAN Rowland 0 Tynemouth 10b 129

          Now there's a(nother) thought. The first name is a strong indicator. I might splash out £7 on the birth certificate.
          Originally posted by Merry Monty Montgomery View Post
          Annoyingly, that chap I mentioned in post #2, Charles Henry Woodburn Riddell, doesn't seem to exist other than for that entry. Nothing on any census, no death, no other Ridd* or Woodburn entries in Wincanton District. Absolutely ziltch. :(

          I thought if I could find him I could either eliminate his family, or discover he had a sister called Mary who was registered without the middle name.

          You said Mary Woodburn Lishman died in 2004. Did she drop her middle name, or did she die out of England/Wales? I couldn't find her death.

          She lived for many years in South Africa and died there.
          Thanks for the new leads/suggestions.
          Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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          • #25
            I've now looked through the FreeBMD births from 1900 to 1910 for any clues. Apart from the Rowland that Merry found, the other Tynemouth births that aren't already in my tree are John Edward (q1 1905) and William (q4 1906). They are of academic interest at this stage and I don't think the certs. would add anything to my search for Mary's origins.

            So, apart from the Rowland birth cert., is there any further light to be shed on the mystery? Mary's death cert. is unlikely to contribute much.
            Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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            • #26
              FOUND IT!!!

              They married in Scotland in 1905.

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              • #27
                Oooh, I suggested that in post #3 :D

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                • #28
                  Very well done and many thanks, Merry. I've invested another £6 in SP and downloaded the register entry. Unlike other Scottish marriages I've seen, the bride and groom's names are just signatures, which in Rowland's case was R. Lishman. So how SP managed to index it with his full name I don't know. I now have her age and her parents' names, and the witnesses look to be 2 sisters of the bride.
                  Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                  • #29
                    And have you found her with her parents anywhere?

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                    • #30
                      On a roll. Found her parents' marriage: Mary's grandmother's maiden name was Mary Woodburn. The Scottish naming pattern strikes again.
                      Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                      • #31
                        Found the family in Glasgow in 1891 but no Mary. She would be 11 then.
                        Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                        • #32
                          And 1891 is the only sighting:

                          at 10 Kenmore Street, Tradeston
                          C R Riddel aged 36 b. Inverness, manager in thread works (still alive in 1905)
                          Jessie " aged 36 b. Glasgow (still alive in 1905)
                          Christina " aged 9 b. Blantyre (witness at wedding in 1905)
                          Jessie " aged 7 b. Dunoon
                          Charlotte " aged 3 b. Paisley (witness at wedding in 1905)
                          Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                          • #33
                            Erm.....apart from 1881!

                            Mary McGill 55
                            David McGill 25
                            John McGill 21
                            Archibald McGill 17
                            Thomas McGill 15
                            Charles Riddell 27
                            Jessie Riddell 26
                            Mary Riddell 8 Mo

                            36 Cumberland St, Glasgow, Lanarkshire.

                            I can't see them in 1901 either.

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                            • #34
                              Ooh, thanks for that. Staying with the in-laws. That was the address for the Riddel/McGill marriage.
                              Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                              • #35
                                Any idea what a "Coliecta Cale 28 Kaily Boy" might do for a living?

                                That's what Charles' great-uncle was doing in 1871.
                                Last edited by Uncle John; 29-11-08, 15:55.
                                Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                                • #36
                                  No idea, but he was a ship broker on the 1861 and 1851!! lol

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                                  • #37
                                    I've got both sides of the family back to 1861 and the Riddels back to 1851. 'Snot fair that you've got the Huttons in 1851 - off to find them. I've managed to find some births and marriages in the IGI.

                                    Christina Hutton married Charles Riddel in 1848 in Strathaven or Gorbals (one of them must have been just banns), had the first child in Strathaven in 1850 and shot off to Inverness to have the other two. By 1861 Charles has disappeared (died?) and Christina and her brood are back in Glasgow with the Hutton clan.

                                    I still can't find any census returns for Mary Woodburn Riddel, only her B M & D.
                                    Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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