asking for my second candadian cousin

[Jessbowbag]

do we know where Peggy was born?

(Carnall Margaret M Carnall Liverpool 8b 108 1919)

Peggy??

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

im going to have to ask him to put it up,he has a fair and runs a stall in canada and has been busy so i said i would ask for him ..this is what he gave me

edward dunning married tryphena carnall she was born in liverpool had one child before mariage called peggy elizabeth.

All we need to know is, did she have the illegitimate child in England or Canada and did she marry in England or Canada?

[brenmac]

liverpool brenda xx

[Elaine ..Spain]

No, I thought tryphenia's FATHER died and her mother mary twizzled off to canada

Sorry Jess, you´re right. Getting too late for me!

[brenmac]

married in england,thankyou for your help,brenda xxx

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

married in england

I can't find a Carnall birth with mmn Carnall for a Margaret E or Peggy E, though there is one for a Margaret M in 1919. I can't find a marriage to Mr Dunning after this either.

Are you saying that when Tryphenia's mother went to Canada she left her daughter behind?

[Jessbowbag]

Bren, its too late, we're going round in squircles here.

lets start again tommorow

[brenmac]

yes thankyou take care have a good night brenda xxx

[Mary from Italy]

There are several Carnalls on the Canadian passenger lists on Ancestry (including a Mary but no Tryphena), but you need a World sub to view the full details:

Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935 - Ancestry.com.au

[Jessbowbag]

OK, lets try from the other end of the stick.

this canadian cousin is related to Tryphenia & Edwards Dunning. How? Who is he to them?

[brenmac]

thanks jess for having another go,this is on his mother side so i guess its through tryphena as he has her parents and grandparents but nothing on edward dunning her husband.i have to go out so i will be back this afternoon so please dont spend time on this if others need help i would appreciate it if when you have noone to help you could look for roy he is a new member here but as i said he has is own little buisness making toiletries and this is his busy time,so i said i would try and ask you smashing people for him.many thanks brenda xxx

[Jessbowbag]

OK, well, if you could find out ( ask him) how he is related to Tryphenia, maybe we can get at this from the other end.

I'm not convinced we have even pinned down the right woman yet, let alone found her groom.

[Merry Monty Montgomery]

I hope no one minds, but I'm just setting out some facts for the people we have found already, regardless of whether they are the right people (!) to give us one place to refer to on the offchance that we have the right people! lol

John Douglas L Carnall was born Q4 1871 W. Derby 8b 277

He married Mary Hewitt in Q2 1897 Liverpool 8b 204

By 1901 they had two children:

William John Carnall Q1 1894 W. Derby 8b 630
Tryphenia Elizabeth Carnall Q1 1898 W. Derby 8b 567

These four are together in 1901 living in Wavertree, Lancs.

John 29 b Liverpool
Mary 28 b Westmoreland Stainmore (?)
William 6 b Liverpool
Tryphenia 3 b Liverpool

Between 1901 and 1918 John seems to have moved to Canada as he died in October 1918 as a Canadian Citizen fighting in WW1 (see post #20). Unless that is a different man with exactly the same initials. If it is our man he was relatively old at 47 years.

We understand Tryphenia had a child in England, but we cannot find the birth of that child. We also understand Tryphenia married Edward Dunning in England, but we cannot find that marriage.

Did John's wife Mary really only move to Canada AFTER the death of her husband if he had presumably lived in Canada long enough to have become a Canadian citizen?

[poytheboy]

Hello Bren - Hello everyone helping.

I've read the thread and it looks like all the information is pointing towards information being in Canada. To start with John Carnall ia recorded very well due to unusal name. My sources as as everyone else - BMD, Census, CWGC Site, and passenger lists to Canada. Although the question is about Edward Dunning? all the research is built around John Carnall. This is my theory...

John Douglas Lane Carnall was born abt 1844 (Yarmouth, Norfolk) - married Mary Batstone (Born Devon abt 1847 died 1897 Liverpool) in 1868 (In St Thomas registration district -Devon) and John died in 1893 (West Derby, Liverpool probably died in Wavertree - census source). So at the head of tree - John Douglas Lane Carnall 1844-1893.

John and Mary had the following children:
CHRISTOPHER CLEMENT CARNALL 1868 (Born Devon)
JOHN DOUGLAS L CARNALL 1871 (Liverpool)
TRYPHENA ELIZABETH CARNALL 1874 (Liverpool)
ALBERT JAMES CARNALL 1876 (Liverpool)
MARY ANN CARNALL 1878 (Liverpool)
ELIZA BEATRICE CARNALL 1884 (Liverpool)
CAROLINE MAUD CARNALL 1888 (Liverpool)

Possibly other children but details from BMD and 1881/1891 census. TRYPHENA does not appear on census so possible died as infant.

So son JOHN DOUGLAS LANE CARNALL jr then marries MARY HEWITT in june qtr 1897. However when veiwing census of 1901 they have two children
TRYPHENA born 1897 and a son born BEFORE the marriage aged 6 called WILLIAM CARNALL. BMD show a birth William John Carnall 1894

At the beginning of 1914 JOHN makes sails to CANADA on his own arriving 16/04/1914. He joins the Canadian Army and dies in action in 1918 as per CWGC entry. Meanwhile the whole family are still in Liverpool.

In 1919 MARY sails with 5 others listed as a widow. The entry is so faded that all you can make out is MARY 47 WIDOW then the aged of the next person on the list ... 21.... THIS IS POSSIBLY TRYPHENA.... so I think that if Tryphena did have a child it must have been before 20th July 1919.


Hope I haven't confused matters !!!

[KiteRunner]

There is a John D Carnall who arrived at St John's, Newfoundland from Liverpool 6 Apr 1914 age 42, on the ship "Lake Manitoba". Married, not been to Canada before. Intending to reside permanently in Canada, English, destination Regina, Saskatchewan. Occupation Machinist, Religious Denomination C of E. No other Carnalls listed with him.

(Oh, I see I'm too late with that one, lol!)

[KiteRunner]

His attestation papers are on ancestry with full name and date of birth etc to show it is definitely the same person. Next of kin Mrs. J. D. Carnall (wife), c/o R Dumbell, 21 Cadogan St., Wavertree, Liverpool, England.

[poytheboy]

The thing is I think that any follow - up is now in Canada, because if Tryphena did marry here in Britain there should be an entry before july 1919. Was Edward Dunning listed on the ship or a Tryphena Dunning?

[KiteRunner]

Tryphena is listed as a Carnall and single on the 1919 passenger list (if it is her), age 21. Then there is Grace 14, Constance(?) 10, John 17 and name removed - can't make out her age. Possibly 6 months or something like that?

[KiteRunner]

Oh, I see that person's name has been mentioned a few times earlier on in the thread anyway - do we know whether she is still alive or not? The name on the passenger list matches the 1919 birth that Jess posted up so it looks as though the age would be a few months.

[poytheboy]

Brilliant.. you've made out more than me. I think this is the right family and the 6 month old is Thryphena's child - would you think?........