1939 Register

[Guy]

Condition as to marriage may be considered by some as private and sensitive.

Margaret

How on earth can condition as to marriage be considered as private?
For a marriage to be legal it has to be advertised in public, has to be conducted in public and is open to public scrutiny, therefore it is public!

The reason the 1939 Registration was withheld from the public was not because of concerns about privacy or sensitive information but because the civil servants concerned with the NHS lied to parliament. Not just once but repeatedly.
As a result the 1939 Registration had to be withheld to obscure the truth.
Cheers
Guy

[Olde Crone Holden]

Jay

I think that the electoral roll is again one of those things where information is/has to be in the public domain as it is nationally important for other people to know who is entitled to vote. Entitlement to vote cannot be a secret.

OC

[Katarzyna]

The reason the 1939 Registration was withheld from the public was not because of concerns about privacy or sensitive information but because the civil servants concerned with the NHS lied to parliament. Not just once but repeatedly.
As a result the 1939 Registration had to be withheld to obscure the truth.
Cheers
Guy

Interesting Guy. On what information is that statement based?

[margaretmarch]

Whilst I personally cannot understand the reason for the 100 year rule being applied, I was reporting what was stated in the article (linked in post 1.) IF the statement is correct, then details of those born less than 100 years ago will not be released automatically.
I find this rather strange when some much more recent head counts (electoral rolls) are online, detailing names of all adults living at an address. Some of my contemporaries find this very disconcerting.
However, neither decision was made by me! Double standards comes to mind. What will be will be; print and be damned/print not and be damned it would seem.

Jay

People can opt out of having their Electoral Register details published online and then all you could do to see their names would be to go to the library local to their address and search on their address not their name.

I think the rules ref the 1939 Register are to do with what was said to people at the time about what use would be made of their details and the legislation under which it was taken rather than anything else.

Margaret

[margaretmarch]

How on earth can condition as to marriage be considered as private?
For a marriage to be legal it has to be advertised in public, has to be conducted in public and is open to public scrutiny, therefore it is public!

The reason the 1939 Registration was withheld from the public was not because of concerns about privacy or sensitive information but because the civil servants concerned with the NHS lied to parliament. Not just once but repeatedly.
As a result the 1939 Registration had to be withheld to obscure the truth.
Cheers
Guy

The fact of a marriage having taken place may be public but the fact that one didn't take place is private - that's what I meant.

Margaret

[keldon]

For those not wishing to wait two years, this is the government website where you make an application (it's now £42).

http://www.hscic.gov.uk/register-service

[Guy]

Interesting Guy. On what information is that statement based?

From the research I did before attempting to get the 1939 Registration available under FoI.
The research which included searching Hansard, the Official Report report of proceedings of both the House of Commons and the House of Lords.
During this research it was discovered that there were a number of exchanges about this including

(1951) http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/c...510802_HOC_169

(1952) http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/c...520529_HOC_163

(1953) http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/s...-marcus-lipton

(1955) (http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/c...550404_HOC_209

(1955) http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/w...9550217_CWA_89

and many others
Cheers
Guy

[Katarzyna]

Even more interesting! Thanks Guy.

[Guy]

People can opt out of having their Electoral Register details published online and then all you could do to see their names would be to go to the library local to their address and search on their address not their name.

I think the rules ref the 1939 Register are to do with what was said to people at the time about what use would be made of their details and the legislation under which it was taken rather than anything else.

Margaret

What rules were they Margaret?
The 1939 National Registration was taken under the National Registration Act, 1939, not under the Census Act 1920 and the powers did not "expire" until 1952.
There was no reference to privacy that is a modern concept there was a worry about the security of the information but that was because such information would be extremely useful to the enemy if the country was overrun rather than privacy.
Do not forget the National Registration was to be used after the war to reconcile children who had been evacuated with their parents or families.

The reason it was based on the 1931 census districts was due to time restraints due to the war.
Cheers
Guy
PS More may be found about the 1939 National Registration at
http://tinyurl.com/o4zklwj

[Janet]

Thank you Guy for your very informative replies regarding the research and the 1939 Register.

Janet

[margaretmarch]

What rules were they Margaret?
The 1939 National Registration was taken under the National Registration Act, 1939, not under the Census Act 1920 and the powers did not "expire" until 1952.
There was no reference to privacy that is a modern concept there was a worry about the security of the information but that was because such information would be extremely useful to the enemy if the country was overrun rather than privacy.
Do not forget the National Registration was to be used after the war to reconcile children who had been evacuated with their parents or families.

The reason it was based on the 1931 census districts was due to time restraints due to the war.
Cheers
Guy
PS More may be found about the 1939 National Registration at
http://tinyurl.com/o4zklwj

Thanks for that Guy - I was assuming the rules would have been similar to the census ones.

I understand what you say about privacy but I think that people in those days would have expected their details to be private because no one would have been able to access the register as it was in government hands and therefore unavailable to members of the public. I wonder if the forms themselves had 'Confidential' as a heading?

Margaret

[Olde Crone Holden]

I do think however, that if people lied about being married on census, (as we know they did) they would also lie on these registers. I doubt if everyone had to take their MCs with them in order to register.

OC

[Guy]

Thanks for that Guy - I was assuming the rules would have been similar to the census ones.

I understand what you say about privacy but I think that people in those days would have expected their details to be private because no one would have been able to access the register as it was in government hands and therefore unavailable to members of the public. I wonder if the forms themselves had 'Confidential' as a heading?


Margaret

Let's put it into context.
People were able to access many of the earlier census by the time the 1939 National Registration was taken; they therefore knew it would be accessible.
In 1916 it became obvious that employers had access to the 1915 National Registration "In February 1916, a firm of electrical engineers questioned why, when all their men had given the same job description on their forms, all the contractors had been 'starred,' but not the senior manager, who was crucial in organizing the work of the firm. " (The 1915 National Registration was more detailed than the 1939 National Registration.)

It was well known that the Registration would be used to repatriate evacuees with their parents after the war meaning that the public would have access to the registration or listings compiled from the registration.

Were the forms marked 'Confidential', no, there was no mention of them being confidential.

The enumerators were made to keep the data secret as it would be of high value to the enemy after an invasion and could be used to assassinate those of influence or in positions of authority, but there were no concerns about the general public.

Cheers
Guy

PS there are examples of the forms on the site I gave the url of in my earlier post.

[margaretmarch]

Thanks Guy for your comments it's all a lot clearer now and I understand your view ref the position taken now on the availability or otherwise of information to the public now from this register.
Margaret

[Tilly Mint]

I've been following this thread and I've learnt something today....Thank you Guy, for sharing your knowledge with us.