Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Disappearing man

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Disappearing man

    Hello everyone. I wonder if anyone can help me. I am having a problem trying to find information regarding my great grandfather John Bertram and his family roots. Apparently, his life story isn't as straightforward as I hoped, and I can only work from the information that my grandmother passed onto my mother. I will try to explain as much as I can without complicating things:
    My grandmother Jane Bertram (that's her birth name) was born in 1910 in Worsborough, near Barnsley in South Yorkshire. She has two siblings, older brother called Wilfred (born 1908), and a younger sister called Agnes (born 1912), and a half brother called George Henry (born 1903). She was born out of wedlock. In other words, her mother Alice Donner was a married woman who, not long before Wilfred was born, had separated from her husband Charles Henry Donner, and started living with John Bertram as a couple, who by the way, was also married to someone else.
    My grandmother doesn't remember much about her real father John, since she was too young. But her mother Alice told her that he worked as a miner and had died when she was young, from the Black Lung Disease. And afterward, Alice ended up living in a workhouse. She was so poor, she gave Agnes up for adoption. However, after a couple of years, Charles Henry came back for her, and he took her back as his wife, adopted Wilfred and Jane, and had another child called Elsie (born 1914).
    To be honest, I don't know how much to believe from this story, because I cannot find any record of Johns death anywhere around 1912 or any other time. He appears in the 1911 census. It records his birth at around 1875 and his birthplace is Quebec in County Durham. Unfortunately, I cannot find any record of his birth, or his whereabouts in the 1881, 1891 or the 1901 census. It's almost as if he came from nowhere. I need to be able to trace his family, otherwise that branch is a dead end for me. Can anyone help me? I've already been in contact with a genealogist recently, but even he had a hard time finding him.

  • #2
    Hi,

    Have you considered this 1901 census. John Bartram a Coal Miner, born Crook living Quebec, he's born 1879 but it's not uncommon for ages to be out in census returns. He's with parents' William and Dorothy, and five siblings. RG13; Piece: 4671; Folio: 87; Page: 38.

    William Bartram 44
    Dorthy Bartram 40
    John Bartram 22
    Robert Bartram 20
    Elizabeth Bartram 12
    Thomas O Bartram 10
    Ann Bartram 8
    Alfred Bartram 6
    Last edited by Guest; 25-11-12, 02:33.

    Comment


    • #3
      And if the above is him, he appears to have been born Hall, his mother's surname before she married William.

      1891, Quebec. RG12; Piece: 4093; Folio: 54; Page: 8

      William Bartram 34
      Dorothy Bartram 30
      John Hall 12, stepson, Crook
      Robert Hall 10, stepson
      Elizabeth Bartram 2
      Thomas Bartram 8/12

      Comment


      • #4
        Marriage Sept qrt 1887, Lanchester Durham, 10a/394. William Bartram and also indexed Dorothy Hall.

        1881, Crook and Billy Row. RG11; Piece: 4928; Folio: 44; Page: 7;

        Christopher Hall 22
        Dorothy Hall 19
        John Hall 2
        Robert W. Hall

        Comment


        • #5
          Marriages Jun 1878, Auckland 10a/212. Christopher Hall and also indexed Dorothy Bailes

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Susan. I will look into it, thanks. However, I can't seem to work out who his wife was, and at least when he died. Although, I did consider that he might have changed his first name. I found a Summerbell Bartram, whom was born in Quebec in 1875, who also worked as a Coal Miner, who married Isabella Donkin in 1895 (John wrote in the census that he was married 16 years) and who died in Barnsley in 1943. The only problem I found was that Summerbell went to Barnsley in 1903 and married Annie Williams (I found that strange because I'm so sure his wife was still alive). Not only that, he married again in 1913 in Lanchester to a woman called Sarah Thomson. I've considered the possibility that if John really was Summerbell, and that he was living a double life, that might explain why my great grandmother was in the workhouse round about 1912 and she could have made some story up about him dying young. I might be grasping at straws here, but do you think thats a possibility? and if so, is there any way to prove it could be him?
            Last edited by clisleno1; 25-11-12, 03:25. Reason: missing info

            Comment


            • #7
              Have you seen this likely death for Isabella ? June 1901 - Isabella Bertram - age 22 - Chester le street ref 10a 286
              Chrissie passed away in January 2020.

              Comment


              • #8
                Actually, no I haven't. The 1901 census shows Summerbell living with Isabella Bertram (born in 1880 in Seaham, Durham) and her family (surname Donkin). If the census was taken just before her death, then that would make sense. However, what threw me off the scent was that there is an Isabella Donkin (born in 1880 in Seaham) in the 1911 census. She is a patient at Tynemouth workhouse. And not only that, I can't seem to find Summerbell in the 1911 census either (with a name like that, I wouldn't say he would be that hard to find)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Divorce was expensive - and way out of reach for most ordinary working folk. It was much easier to just leave and live somewhere else. With a bit of luck, no-one would find out.

                  If my research is correct, my Errant Grandfather, who was born in March 1887, married in Nov 1911, had two sons (Sep 1912 and Oct 1915), and emigrated in May 1916 to Canada. Curiously, by the time he emigrated from Canada to the USA, in 1924, he was single with no family and had been born in 1893. My grandmother had died in 1927, so the wife whom he'd recently married in time for the 1930 census was probably OK, though I haven't tracked that marriage record. He appears to have married twice in Tennessee 1937: in July and November. The July bride appears in 1940 as single and living with her parents and siblings, while Errant Grandfather is with the November bride. For both Tennessee weddings he was aged only 34 (!) and the November bride - ostensibly 19 - was not quite 15. He and November bride were divorced in 1949, and he went on to (possibly) marry a widow with whom he was living when he died. His memorial stone in Florida suggests that his final wife did know when he'd been born (life years given as: 1887 - 1967). Although there's so much conflicting data in this story, each record links in a chain and there's always something to make it extremely likely that my theory is correct.

                  Christine
                  Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Can't find his service records, but unfortunately not all records have survived. Seems he did serve in the war though, unless there were two Summerbell B's!!!



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Wow, Christine, that seems very complicated. I bet that took some researching. Problem is that I don't know what to do now. I could go with the theory that he changed his first name from Summerbell to John. Perhaps he was ashamed of his name, since he was a miner. Or he could be covering his tracks because of his marital stasis. For the moment, this is just pure speculation. I have copies of his second and third marriage certificate, which shows him as being a widower on both occasions. If that is the case, I need to find out what happened to his three wives, and if and when they died.
                      Or I could use Susan's suggestion that he might be the John Bartram who was born in Crook, but lived in Quebec. I would need to found out whether he was married between 1901 and 1911, and confirm his whereabouts in the 1911 census. And also, was it common to name their childhood place as their birth place, in later life? If anyone else has any suggestions, I'd be very appreciative.
                      Last edited by clisleno1; 26-11-12, 00:34. Reason: grammatical error

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Maybe his son?

                        George Summerbell Bartram
                        Birth: Sep 1903 - Lanchester, Durham.

                        George Summerbell Bartram
                        Death: Jun 1904, age 0 - Lanchester, Durham

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks Susan, I had no idea his war records existed.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by clisleno1 View Post
                            Wow, Christine, that seems very complicated. I bet that took some researching. Problem is that I don't know what to do now. I could go with the theory that he changed his first name from Summerbell to John. Perhaps he was ashamed of his name, since he was a miner. Or he could be covering his tracks because of his marital stasis. For the moment, this is just pure speculation. I have copies of his second and third marriage certificate, which shows him as being a widower on both occasions. If that is the case, I need to find out what happened to his three wives, and if and when they died.
                            Or I could use Susan's suggestion that he might be the John Bartram who was born in Crook, but lived in Quebec. I would need to found out whether he was married between 1901 and 1911, and confirm his whereabouts in the 1911 census. And also, was it common to name their childhood place as their birth place, in later life? If anyone else has any suggestions, I'd be very appreciative.
                            Well that research was spread over quite a while. For a long time I had presumed I'd never get any info about my paternal grandfather because my father would never speak about that part of his family, and all I had to go on was a tenuous rumour that he'd not come back from WW1 because he'd gone to the USA.

                            As for people being inconsistent about their PoB... My paternal G-grandfather gave:
                            Essex [1871]
                            Maidenhead [1881, 1901],
                            Ilford [1891;1911]

                            He was born in Barkingside, but grew up near Maidenhead. I think the answer may have depended on how the question was worded by the enumerator.

                            Christine
                            Researching: BENNETT (Leics/Birmingham-ish) - incl. Leonard BENNETT in Detroit & Florida ; WARR/WOR, STRATFORD & GARDNER/GARNAR (Oxon); CHRISTMAS, RUSSELL, PAFOOT/PAFFORD (Hants); BIGWOOD, HAYLER/HAILOR (Sussex); LANCASTER (Beds, Berks, Wilts) - plus - COCKS (Spitalfields, Liverpool, Plymouth); RUSE/ROWSE, TREMEER, WADLIN(G)/WADLETON (Devonport, E Cornwall); GOULD (S Devon); CHAPMAN, HALL/HOLE, HORN (N Devon); BARRON, SCANTLEBURY (Mevagissey)...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Christine in Herts View Post
                              I think the answer may have depended on how the question was worded by the enumerato
                              Couldn't agree more, eg - 'where are you from' or 'where were you born'

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X