Helen Coull born 1796 Elgin - possible link to Dr Thomas Coull
by, 15-03-12 at 08:59 (1467 Views)
This research has been to find a link between Dr Thos Coull and ? cousin, Helen Coull. Special thanks go to FTF member, Moggie, for her interest and help.
The quest began after a link was suggested in The History of Antigua Vol 1 by Oliver:
Extract: 'A Dr Coull (he seems to have been a well-known Medical Man, as I see the name quoted in an old medical work). His daughter was a famous beauty (called the rose, or some flower, of Scotland), she married the Earl of Dunbar.
Your grandfather, Thomas Coull MD, was assistant to him until he arrived...(in W Indies). My mother had a romantic notion that he had been in love with his cousin, and came out (to W Indies) to heal his broken heart when she married the Earl.'
We know that Dr Thos Coull went out to the W Indies before 1815 and that Helen Coull married Sir James Dunbar in 1814. So timewise that fits.
We know Helen and Dr Thomas Coull could not have been first cousins as both their fathers were called James. We do not know the parents and siblings of the fathers of Dr James Coull and Rev James Coull. It could be that their respective fathers were brothers.
Dr James Coull's father, Rev Alexander, was born ? 1720-30.
Rev James Coull's father, Patrick, was born ? 1722 ? Cullen.
* If we could find the birth/bap records of each of the men, it would confirm their birthplace and parents. To ascertain Rev Alexander Coull's birth year, would help if could find Monumental Inscription for him and his wife.
I have e-mailed Edinkillie Church and left message on Guest Book of Moray Burial Ground Research Group website regarding Rev Alexander Coull.
It could even be the relationship is not from the Coull side but the Ogilvie one. Dr James Coull's mother was Elizabeth Ogilvie and Dr Thomas Coull's paternal grandmother was Ann Ogilvie. It is however more likely to be on the Coull line as Dr Thos Coull is said to have been assistant to a Dr Coull, his uncle.
The Records of Elgin, 1234-1800: p499 mentions Dr James Coull of Elgin had a practice in London. This could be where Dr Thomas Coull worked. We know he lived in London for a period of his early life.
Here is what we have so far:
Helen Coull Birth: 4/8/1796 Elgin, Moray, Scotland. Bap: 14/8/1796 Elgin.
Marriage: to Sir James Dunbar on 2/2/1814.
Death: 1/9/1888 at home, 3 Richmond Terr, Tonbridge, Kent. Probate on Ancestry.co.uk.
She was niece of Sir Archibald Dunbar of Northfield and cousin to John, Viscount of Arbuthnott.
Sir James Dunbar: Born 12/2/1770 Boath, Auldearn, Nairnshire. Death: 5/1/1836. Made 1st Baronet in 1814. Captain in Royal Navy.
Gentleman’s Mag Vol 5, p 314: Obituary of Sir James Dunbar, husband of Helen Coull:
'5/1/1836 At Boath, co. Nairn, Sir James Dunbar, Knight and Baronet, a Post-Captain in the Royal Navy. He was descended from the house of Dunbar of Westfield, founded by Alexander, younger son of John Dunbar (younger son of George, 10th Earl of Dunbar & March) by the Princess Marjory Stuart, daughter of King Robert II, and brother to Thomas, created Earl of Moray. He was the 3rd but eldest surviving son of Alexander Dunbar of Boath.'
I have more info on his family tree.
1. Jane b 1/1/1815
2. Helen Patricia b 12/8/1816 or 1817. Died 1896 Tonbridge Wells.
married James George Duncan Milne 1/3/1837 Auldearne, Nairn. He was in the army - murdered in Aden 1851. His father and grandfather lived in Boyndie, Wellington, N Zealand. See full a/c of his murder in the Wellington (New Zealand) Independent 13/9/1851, itself taken from the Banffshire Journal:
3. (Sir) (2nd Baronet of Dunbar) Frederick William b17/10/1819, d1851. Army officer.
Married Caroline Maria Gordon.
4. (Sir) (3rd Baronet of Dunbar) James Alexander b 1821 d 20/6/1881. Married Louisa Pemble.
5. Adelaide H C b ?1829 Scotland. ? Died 1904 Brighton.
6. Margaret Elizabeth b ?1832 Scotland. ? Died 1902 Tonbridge.
7. George Shedden birth: n/k. Died: 6/12/1858? Woolwich. 1st Lieutenant R.M.
8 & 9. Two younger sons died of Scarlet Fever about 1835: Peter & Ernest Augustus.
1861 Lady Helen at 3 Richmond Terr, Tunbridge Wells with widowed dau, Helen, and single daughters: Adelaide & Margaret.
1871 Lady Helen at 24 London Rd, Tunbridge Wells with daughters, Helen & Margaret. ? same house as above.
1881 Lady Helen & daughters Helen & Margaret at
3 Richmond Terr.
Helen's family of origin:
Father: Dr James Coull – IGI no details of him there.
Ref: dNM002932 Headstone Ref : Ec83 James Coull Occupation: Doctor & Surgeon in Royal Navy.
Dob: 1758 Death: 29/5/1831
Spouse: Jean "Jane" Dunbar
Place of Death: Ashgrove, nr Elgin.
Listed in ‘Steel's original and correct list of the royal navy’ as being a physician to H.M.’s Fleet.
Dr Jas Coull attended a meeting to defend the county 22/7/1794 – he was qualified by that date.
He married Jean Dunbar in 1792.
His maternal grandmother could have been Mary Dunbar, wife of James Ogilvie of Toux. She died 1856.
Scottish Record Soc Record of Testament 1715-1800 online:
Mary, in Fordyce, relict of James Ogilvie late of Toux will:17/3/1756
James & Jean’s children:
1. Alexander (?Dunbar) b 30/0/1791. Died India.
2. Helen b 4/8/1796 bap: 14/8/1796 Elgin. See above.
3. James b 3/7/1798. Died India.
4. Eliza b 1801 died by 1811.
5. Jean ‘Jane’ b 14/4/1803
6. Mary b 14/8/1806
7. Archibald (?Dunbar) b5/6/1809. Died in infancy.
8. Eliza b30/3/1811
9. Thomas b 15/12/1813. Died India.
10. Margaret died in infancy.
11. Archibald b ? .Died India.
Monumental Inscriptions - same plot:
0083 Coull Jean Dunbar 185(7/1) Elgin Cathedral
0083 Coull Archibald Dunbar--Infancy
0083 Coull Eliza--Infancy
0083 Coull Margaret--Infancy
0083 Coull Jane---
0083 Coull Alexander Dunbar--Died in India
0083 Coull Thomas--Died in India
0083 Coull Archibald Dunbar--Died in India
0083 Coull James--Died in India
0083 Dunbar Alexander--Sir, of Northfield, Baronet (Dr Coull’s father-in-law?)
0083 Coull James-1831 Dr. Of Ashgrove
Dr James’s father: Rev Alexander Coull:
IGI: ? 7/1/1755 Dyke, Moray.Marriage to Elizabeth Ogilvie : 'Alexander Coul & Bettie Ogilvie'.
IGI: Cannot find accurately birth of Alexander although several possible ones in Cullen and Banff. Cannot find his death (see below).
From The Succession of Ministers in the Church of Scotland from the Reformation online book p 419:
Alexander Coull licensed by Presb. of Dingwall 28 Mar 1749. Was Royal Bounty Missionary at Edinkillie Feb 1752, pres. by James, Earl of Moray, Nov 1753 and ordained 13 Mar 1754; died 10 Jul 1790. Only child appears to be Dr James Coull. Married Elizabeth dau of James Ogilvie of *Toux. She died 28 Oct 1806 Elgin.
*Alternative sp: Touchis, Touchie.
Rev Alexander Coull’s wife: Elizabeth Ogilvie:
IGI: ? Elizabeth Ogilvy bap: 25/2/1725 Fordyce, Banff.
Fa: James Ogilvy Mo: Mary Dunbar
Mary Ogilvy bap: 23/4/1722 Fordyce. Parents as above.
IGI Marriage anywhere for the parents – nil. Death James Ogilvie – nil.
Elizabeth Ogilvie’s parents:
Her mother, Mary Dunbar: IGI - 3 possibilities:
bap: 15/10/1704 Dyke, Moray. Fa: Archibald Dunbar
bap: 30/5/1705 Dyke. Fa: Alexander Dunbar
bap: 28/4/1706 Dyke. Fa: Peter Dunbar
NB: There was another Alexander Coul born Morayshire a schoolmaster Edinkillie 1836-43, married Elizabeth Smeaton, Dollar Ordained: 7/9/1843
Aberdeen Journal Announcement of marriage:
Rev Alexander Coull of Alves, Moray to Elizabeth, eldest daughter of William Smeaton, Dollar: 3/6/1844 at Dollar. (Alves is near Elgin and Forres. Only Dollar can find: Dollar, Clackmannanshire).
Care needed not to get these two confused in records.