Robert Bernard Patrick Bryant (Pat) b1911 Cardiff d1943 - lost family
by, 28-02-12 at 11:47 (1586 Views)
This is my mother's beloved older brother who was killed in the Second World War.
As well as being here for my family and FTF to refer to, I hope this blog will serve to help any of Pat's ? surviving family, who might find it on the web. I have a lot of information on his ancestors and family of origin which am willing to share. I have omitted the name of his ? children in case they are still alive.
Thanks, as ever, to dedicated FTF members who helped with this research. I found out so much about his last days by them analysing the photograph of him in uniform (see below). Special thanks to members who did wonders with photo restoration.
The white flash on Pat's forage cap indicates acceptance into the RAF for aircrew training.
Maybe he had his photo taken in the RAF uniform as he was just about to transfer for air crew training, but was killed before the transfer was complete as listed on graves website as seaman?.
Pat and possibly his wife 10 Oct 1942
Robert Bernard Patrick (k/a Pat) Bryant
Birth: 1/9/1911 Splott, Cardiff.
Baptised RC 17/9/1911 St Albans, Splott.
Family lived at 43 Janet St (1911 census).
Marriage cert: 11/6/1936 Register Office, Edmonton, Middx. By Licence.
Robert Bernard Bryant, 24, bachelor to Winifred Ada Crawley, 29, spinster. (Makes her year of birth about 1907)
He was a *Potman, worker, living at 181 Fore St, Edmonton.
His fa: William Henry Bryant (coal trimmer).
She had no occupation and lived at 32 Cuckoo Hall Lane, Edmonton.
Her fa: Arthur William Crawley, tailor.
Witnesses: W. H. Buchan, T. Shotton.
* A Potman was a job working in a pub or club. It must be remembered that there was a depression in the 1930s. I have a booklet of his technical drawings/notes in 1930s connected with government training.
[BMD ref: 06/1936 Edmonton Vol 3a p 2520].
?BMD death (right year of birth) Winifred A Bryant 1948 aged 42 Lambeth Vol 5c p1083
Children: On Free BMD, the only birth showing for a Bryant, with mother’s maiden name of Crawley in Edmonton:
Patrick G Bryant Birth: 03/1937 Edmonton Vol 3a p1082. Death: 06/1937 aged 0 yrs Edmonton Vol 3a p737.
My mother said Pat had a son out of wedlock (cannot give name in case still living). He apparently went into a R.C. children’s home, Southend. He is not on free BMD birth index. I did try and trace him in 1990 but RC records no longer exist for that home. He could well have been adopted.
My mother said Pat had a daughter with wife Winifred: E********. Neither I nor FTF members can find her in BMD records.
My mother said that Pat was killed whilst having an operation on his back to correct one leg being shorter than the other but no evidence for this. FTF member's comments:
'From the information already found and the site on RN casualties, it is apparent that 33 men were killed at HMS Collingwood on 18/6/1943. Of those 33, most had six figure service numbers beginning 51 and many of those numbers were consecutive. Service numbers were allocated to new naval recruits from 1/4/1943 in the 500000 series.
It follows that most of these men had been in the Navy only a matter of weeks and had joined at some time after 1/4/1943, including your uncle, many at the same time.
The CWGC site shows many of them were aged just 18 yrs and it is probable they were together under instruction indoors or in their camp hut with their NCO (acting Leading Seaman) when they were killed.
HMS Collingwood was a training shore base and remains so today. Although it would have had a Sickbay, it would not have been equipped to conduct any major operations, more likely to have been carried out at the Royal Naval Hospital, Haslar in Gosport.'
Death: BMD death reg: Bryant Robert B. P. 06/1943 Gosport Vol 2b p728 aged 31.
Commonwealth War Graves website:
Bryant Robert Bernard Patrick Initials: R B P
Nationality: U K
Rank: Ordinary Seaman
Regiment/Service: Royal Navy
Unit Text: H.M.S. Collingwood.
Age: 32 Date of Death: 18/06/1943
Service No: P/JX/517781
Additional info: Son of William Henry & Mary Ellen Bryant.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Sec. L. Grave 772.
Cemetery: Edmonton Cemetery, Middx.
'Collingwood, bombing: listed as: BRYANT, Robert B P, Ordinary Seaman, JX 517781, killed.'
According to the memorial below, 33 people were killed in that air raid, mostly new recruits so maybe he was newly transferred:
‘Able Seaman Robert Blackburn Died 18th June 1943 Unit: HMS Collingwood.
HMS Collingwood is the Royal Navy’s shore establishment at Plymouth. And at the time was a major training centre. In an air raid on the 18th June 1943, 33 men, mostly new recruits, were killed.’
'HMS Collingwood is a shore base, was built as a new entry Training Establishment for "hostilities only’ ratings of the Seaman Branch. The 200 acres it covers were compulsorily purchased in 1939. The base is situated between Gosport and Fareham in Hampshire. The buildings were erected to surround the Parade Ground which was the focal point of the training.
On 10 January 1940, the base was officially opened. Training began a week later with batches of about 1000 trainees joining every 3 weeks for a 10 week course. Fifty wrens joined Collingwood initially and worked as Cooks, Stewards, Messengers and Telephonists.
The first Wireless Telegraphy ratings started their training in June 1940, a Radio Direction Finding School was added in 1942. At this time the Medical Section was rated as a Naval Hospital with a Surgeon Rear Admiral in charge.'
I have contacted the Navy and it would cost quite a lot to access his records. Proof would have to be provided that I am the next of kin.
Websites where obtained information: