Missing family members - help

[stevie2006]

Hi I am looking for another bit of help and wasn't sure whether to start a new post or to add it on so here goes.

I have my great great grandmother Clara Ward in the 1911 census with a James Ward listed as husband of 3 years and children Charley (male) age 14, Grace age 9 and Hilda age 6. I have Clara's other children, Isabel Ward (my great grandmother) on the 1911 census in a home for Waifs and Strays at St Judes, Selhurst and her older sister Elizabeth as a servant in another home. That leaves two children unaccounted for - Mabel Ward and Rose Ward. The 1911 census does state 7 children of which 6 are living so that tallies. My dad mentioned that he met a Rose Ward many many years ago so I think that means that Mabel died young.

I know she was alive in 1905 and was aged 10 - no sign in 1911 so perhaps she died between 1905 and 1911 - can anyone help find her? I have had no luck so far

I have tried to look for Rose but again no joy - she is listed as Rose Mary Ward and also Rose Agnes Ward and in 1905 was age 8

One final teaser is that as mentioned Clara's husband Charles died in May 1905 and on 1911 census Clara has a husband mentioned - James Ward and it says they have been married 3 years - can anyone find a marriage of Clara to James? Clara was born Clara Pettitt, then married Charles Ward and then it would seem she marries someone with the same name Ward unless it has been transcribed wrong

The family seem to be in and about the West Ham area

Can anyone help

Thanks

Steven

[angelina]

on free bmd i found this
Dec 1908 marriage in paddington - james henry e Ward married to clara rose lamb. i know its not the right surname but 'clara' and 'rose' fit in a bit? and the date is about right.

[stevie2006]

Hi Angelina name looks right but can't understand why surname would be lamb - her maiden name was Pettitt and unless she married a 2nd time between 1905 and 1908 ie married a Mr Lamb then married a 3rd time to a Mr Ward?

Looks a tough one to find out - I have sent away to GRO for Clara's death certificate but don't think it will give me much

Thanks

Steven

[Night Owl]

Coming at this from another angle, what does the 1911 say about birthplace and occupation for James Ward?

[angelina]

There is a mabel ward dying aged 10 in 1906 in Holborn on freebmd. dont know if she is yours.
also ignore what i found on clara rose lamb as i see that your clara had middle name of lillian when she married charles ward in west ham.thats off freebmd too.

[BC]

Have you sent for any birth/other certificates ? Stating/implyimg married on Census is not necessarily true. Also the middle name of Agnes interests me. I have Pettits and one has middle name of Agnes. They were RC so have you checked those records ? Not always safe to assume missing names are all to be found in CofE records.

[stevie2006]

Hi Jackie on the 1911 census James Ward is listed as age 30 birthplace Stratford in Essex and occupation is given as Dock Labourer.

Hi Angelina will check out details of death of Mabel on free BMD

BC no evidence of them being Catholic so far but have not discounted it

Thanks for the help

Steven

[stevie2006]

Hi Jackie any luck from your side trying another angle?

Thanks

Steven

[Night Owl]

Sorry Steven, absolutely nowhere. I've tried thinking laterally but I'm stumped.

[stevie2006]

Angelina you might be onto something with marriage to James Henry Ward - I received a possible death certificate for Clara Ward today and husband is listed as James Henry Ward occupation General Labourer.

The problem is I have no way of confirming if it's my Clara

No mention of first husband Charles - would it be normal practice to mention first husband on death certificate ?

She is listed as age 47 at death and I know she was born in 1869 and her death is in 1915 so ages are about right. Informant is given as a C Puddyford -daughter (think it is a C maybe a G or an E).

I am thinking get the marriage certificate and see if father is noted as John Pettitt which will prove a lot

Thanks Angelina

Steven

[stevie2006]

Angelina do you have the page and volume number and I will go ahead and order - had a look myself but couldn't see it

Thanks

Steven

[stevie2006]

Wait a minute just realised the name on that marriage was Clara Rose Lamb - I don't think this can be my Clara at all - her full name was Clara Lillan Pettitt who married a Charles William Ward - this makes me think my 1911 census must be wrong too. Looks like I will have to go back to the drawing board.

The last time I hear about Clara is in he letter from the Childrens Society which says " on 29th October 1910 Clara Ward wrote to the Society from 37 Albert Square, Forest Lane, Stratford asking for her daughter Elizabeth to be returned to her care as she felt she would be able to get work".

I think I have to start again with Clara from 1910 onwards

Sorry to be a pest

Steven

[Chrissie Smiff]

Have you got your Great grandmother Isabel's birth cert Steven? I can't find a birth for a Clara L Pettitt anywhere.

[Chrissie Smiff]

Is Isabel's birth the April-June 1895 one in West Ham ref 4a 222 ?

[stevie2006]

Hi Chrissie sorry for the delay was out sledging with my wee girl!!!!!!

I have both my great grandmother (Isabel Ward) and great great grandmothers certificates

Isabel Ward born Forest Gate West Ham on 27th December 1894 - parents Charles William Ward and Clara Ward and

Clara Ward -maiden name Pettit born Mile End Old Town, Middlesex on 6th September 1869 - parents John Pettit and Sarah Poole

I also have Charles Ward's birth and death certificates and his marriage to Clara on 18th December 1892 in West Ham with Clara having a middle name of Lilian

Thanks

Steven

[Chrissie Smiff]

Hi Steven
I have been having another look to see what I could find in 1911 but no luck so far I'm afraid.
Chrissie
p.s. I did check and she wasn't still at the address on that letter 29th Oct 1910

[stevie2006]

Thanks Chrissie this one is tough - it looks as though Clara disappears on the 1911 census and must still be alive aged 140 lol!!!!!!! as no sign of her death. I am wondering if she remarried after Charles died. It looks as though the death certificate I received today is not the right one but belongs to a Clara Lamb who married a James Henry Ward.

Steven

[Chrissie Smiff]

There are several possible Clara's on the 1911 in the London/Middlesex etc area but it's difficult to know which is her unless she has any of the children with her. I imagine by then Charley will be using his proper birth name of Charles. There is no Charley birth for the right time and place.

[stevie2006]

Hi Chrissie these are the children I know about

Elizabeth - I have already found working as a servant aged 17
Isabel (my great grandmother) in St Judes Home aged 16
Mabel age 10 in 1905 from the details given from the Childrens Society - I think may have died early
Charles - middle name either William or Harold age 9 in 1905 and sometimes known as Charley
Rose - middle name either Mary or Agnes age 8 in 1905
Grace Mary age 4 in 1905
Hilda Marjory age 18 months in 1905

Two of the children have different middle names on Isabel's and Elizabeth's application forms to the homes which confuses things.

Elaine did find a 1911 census but appears to now be wrong as a James Ward is listed as a husband of 3 years and this looks as though it's a different Clara. The only strange this is that three children are on the census Charley age 14, Grace age 9 and Hilda age 6 which all matches Clara's children - the stumbling block is the husband James.

I am totally lost with this one

Steven

[Chrissie Smiff]

It is an odd one Steven. That 1911 census did seem to fit the bill.