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How far back in time is it possible to get?

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  • How far back in time is it possible to get?

    I have managed to trace my family back to the mid 1500's after more than twenty years research, the final couple were in Saffron Walden Essex and I can only trace their burials and the baptisms of their children, but not their own births or baptisms.
    The family name originates from Lancastershire through military records, feet of fines and court records I can trace the family name and the areas where they lived back to the mid 1200's as the family name is still used to identify several locations in Lancastershire.

    An example of one of the military records: John, was an archer in the naval expedition in 1388 under the command of Richard Fitz Alan Earl of Arundel and is identified as being from Fysshewyk (fishwick)
    The family crest is in Fairbairns family crests.
    The question is what chance have I of bridging the gap from 1470 in Lancastershire and 1558 in Saffron Waldon to link the Saffron Walden family to the Lancastershire one?
    Incidentally the family are still in Essex so I didn't have far to travel to the ERO about two miles!

  • #2
    On one of my lines (surname Abel) someone on a genealogy site has taken the line back to Abel, Adam, dust, God!!!!!!!!!

    Jay
    Janet in Yorkshire



    Genealogists never die - they just swap places in the family tree

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Janet in Yorkshire View Post
      On one of my lines (surname Abel) someone on a genealogy site has taken the line back to Abel, Adam, dust, God!!!!!!!!!

      Jay
      Yep ! got exactly the same - I think they were using the World Wide Tree ! I am very sceptical about this.....

      Nina

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      • #4
        fronteria

        You have a 50/50 chance of making the link because you will either find the link or you won't! You already know that it is hit and miss whether there are any useful records that far back.

        Fortunately Lancashire is richly blessed with ancient documents, even covering the 1400s, which is the usual stumbling ground for research this early.

        I would think your next step is to bring forward the Lancashire family and see where that gets you, if you can't get the Essex one back any further.

        OC

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        • #5
          Fronteria,

          Have you actually been able to trace this family back from yourself with all marriage/death and birth certs back to 1837 and then all the parish records, linking all the places mentioned through Baptisms/Marriages and Deaths back to the 1500's without any gaps at all? Or have you just taken the name and started from where you think the name has originated?

          I know I have got back to the early 1600's on a "Noble" line in Northants. They have now disappeared from my hamlets in the early 1600's and with a name like Noble popular in Scotland and many other counties it will be difficult to find them now going further back. Obviously the chances of hooking into important families with land etc are greater the further back you can get and that in itself will give you the extra impetus as there will be more records around for those with land. I also have found archers by the name of Noble but could never claim them as mine unless I can get beyond the date of 1633.


          PS 1537 was the start of official records though many counties will be sadly missing in the early records as many were lost through fire/wet and other reasons.


          Janet
          Last edited by Janet; 22-11-11, 09:36.

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          • #6
            I haven't managed to get further back than 1617 with any of my lines and much less than that in most.

            My main problem is that I seem to always end up with two possible fathers with the same name at the same time and place. There is no point in continuing back from them because (with only baptism, marriage and burials in the briefest form) I will never be able to distinguish between the two Josephs or the two Richards. Its not possible to even tell if the two possibles are related or even originate from the place in question! .... And, yes, I have spent hours and hours collecting info from County RO, come home with it all and worked out the connections only to discover - yet again - that I can't tell which is my relly!! Grrrrr!

            Anne

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            • #7
              I have my great grandmothers family back to the 16th century, as they had remained in the parish she was born, as far back as the parish records go. The earliest parish register entry for them is 1572, and the earliest Will, I have so far found for them in the Country Records Office, dates from 1557, and appears to be the patriarch of the family, who would have been born around 1495-1500. They were Yeoman farmers, and the family name is mentioned in connection with earlier land deeds and transfers in the village from the early 15th century, so they were likely already well established there even at that time.

              Of course that far back yes establishing exact relationships between individuals is fraught with difficulties, but I'm not actually too concerned with that aspect when I get that far back, and concentrate instead on building a general picture of the family as a whole and their place in the community. When you consider this is 12, 13, 14 generations back, the amount of ancestors you in reality have on that level is already mind bendingly large isn't it, thousands to tens of thousands, so individual stories, fascinating as they are, to me become less important as you are much greater connected to the entirity of the population anyway.

              Funnily enough, I tried to get my 18 year old niece interested in her fathers family history as they are Spanish originally, and she asked me if I could get her back to the Romans. I think she was expecting it done within a week!

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              • #8
                Fronteria,

                Have you actually been able to trace this family back from yourself with all marriage/death and birth certs back to 1837 and then all the parish records, linking all the places mentioned through Baptisms/Marriages and Deaths back to the 1500's without any gaps at all? Or have you just taken the name and started from where you think the name has originated? [Quote]

                I have researched most of my families history at the ERO and on their Seax Essex Ancesters system online which has a lot of the same material as the ERO but you can access it at home on your PC.
                Other than the computer programmed, certificates, photocopying, car parking and fuel costs I have not spent any money on tracing my family.
                I found the IGI records were badly corrupted as the spelling of the family name had been deliberately miss spelt in hundreds of cases and didn't match the records that they were supposed to represent just to make it fit into another family’s fictional history.
                The most difficult problem which took a year to solve was linking with documentary evidence my grand parents five times removed, who lived in another village 30 miles away to my family on going over all the material again I had missed the 1841 census and by luck she was visiting her son and stayed at his home on the night of the census.
                I had wrongly thought that she had died earlier but had not researched it, in 1841 she was 86 years of age and still travelling so you can't take anything for granted.
                I didn't find any baptism records that gave me a clue as to the family’s location other than the obvious church location, but marriage records were helpful and the occupation record on these proved very interesting.
                But the one major advantage in my view was a rare name made up of only four letters so it is very easy to spell correctly.
                In the current telephone directory everyone in it with my family name is related to me.
                It is worth looking at documents that come up on auctions as I have found five land indentures and leases that refer to land owned by my ancesters in the 1700 hundreds which I kew nothing about.

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                • #9
                  Richard

                  My attitude exactly! I have the Holdens back to a shaky 890 and a slightly less shaky 1179. From the 1500s backwards, I have used land documents to map the family but of course all I have really proved is that a family named Holden lived at that farm/manor whatever, but quite often not the exact relationship from generation to generation. Like you, I feel it does not matter so much, they are all the holders of the genes they passed down to me.

                  Mind you, I DO have one document which spans from 1208 to 1779, a piece of dowry land which is religiously mentioned all the way down the years, proving a direct link from the 1208 holder to the 1779 holder, so it IS possible to prove some things, just not in the usual bmd way!

                  OC

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                  • #10
                    I agree the rare name makes a big difference. It is my PEER family who stayed very close to home in Bedfordshire that I have done best with. Plus some fanciful forenames such as Valentine PEER and Morgan PEER who seem to be unique! So much better than all the Williams and Thomases!

                    Anne

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                    • #11
                      Yes, an unusual name does make a difference, though I have taken a Smith line back to 1570!! But that was only in the same village and only going back fom 1620! I am sure there there are many ways to getting back beyond the 1600's if you can find those missing links, which I have not yet been able to find! I have found many same names in the county but very circumspect as I cannot find any links, and I do like to find my links before I say there are connections, but I have enough information to keep me busy writing up what I have got.

                      My one worry about trying to link names is that I know of one American family who has taken all the people named Hoyte and has tried to link them all together to include many wills and has them from the Dorset area in the 1600's going to the States in the 1600's with the Puritans. Fine, except that half of the work done is very circumstantial with no evidence given. I have the name Hoyte which I can get back to 1700 and I know the name is in Northants from the mid 1500's yet the names appearing on the US research for 1500 and 1600's are the same names found in Northants! The name Hoyte is also found in Cornwall! And of course the name Hoyte is also linked to Haitt/Haight/Hight/Height as well as many other spellings!

                      Janet
                      Last edited by Janet; 22-11-11, 09:38.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Olde Crone Holden View Post
                        You have a 50/50 chance of making the link because you will either find the link or you won't!
                        OC, the mathematician in me has risen to the bait!
                        Buy a lottery ticket because you have a 50/50 chance of winning the jackpot - you will or you won't!
                        Except I'm afraid it isn't true!!

                        I'm just back to the 1670s or so - just a name on a baptismal record.

                        Happy New Year!
                        Kind regards,
                        William
                        Particular interests: The Cumming families of Edinkillie & Dallas, Moray

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                        • #13
                          Wulliam

                          But surely, on a level playing field, you have an equal CHANCE of finding something useful, in other words the only options are that you either do or you don't find something?

                          OC (non mathematician)

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                          • #14
                            I make it 2 to 1 against. If the info. exists it's 50/50 that you'll find it. But if it doesn't exist you'll never find it.
                            Uncle John - Passed away March 2020

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                            • #15
                              My father in law got back to the 1500s, which was pretty incredible as he came from Silesia where so many records have been destroyed.

                              But, then again, until the end of the Second World War, the family hadn't moved more than about 100 miles away from the earliest record he'd managed to find

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