The Winner of Who Do We Think You Are 3rd September is.............

[Barbara Dodds]

~~Lesley~~

well done, I hope you get a few brick walls knocked down:)

[~~Lesley~~]

Thank you Barbara :)

I hope someone has a JCB or two to knock down those walls ;)

I'm hoping that someone will spot something that I've missed.

[Barbara Dodds]

*goes and gets sledgehammer as its a bit late at night fora JCB*:D

[borobabs]

Good luck Lesley go get some walls down dear ;;;

[~~Lesley~~]

My biggest brick wall which I haven't really looked at properly in a while is Mary Coleburn born in Liverpool about 1835.

The spelling of her name could easily vary ie Mary Coulburn, Mary Colborne etc which makes it more problematic.

She married in Wigan in May 1864 and she listed her parent as Mary Coleburn whose occupation was brickmaker. I presumed, perhaps wrongly that she may be illegitimate. She was 29 years of age at the time of her marriage to James Bratherton/Bretherton/Brotherton.

Witnesses at the marriage were John and Mary Hampston. I'm not sure who they are, they could be friends or related to her husband.

1841?
I'd really like to find her on the 1841 census to see if I can tie her in with her parent(s)

1851

In 1851, I think she could be 16 year old Mary Coulburn listed as a servant at Mill Lane, Hindley, Lancashire, Englandwith the Isherwood family. No clue to her parents.

Class: HO107; Piece: 2200; Folio: 116; Page: 12; GSU roll: 87210.

1861?

I'm not sure where Mary is in 1861.

1871

In 1871, she is 36 and married to James Bratherton and living in Albert Street in Wigan.

Class: RG10; Piece: 3895; Folio: 18; Page: 30; GSU roll: 842041.

The interesting thing is who is lodging in the house next door in 1871:

Ann Coleburn (unmarried), a 22 year old tailoress from Liverpool with her 5 month? old daughter born in Wigan (ooh hadn't registered that she was born in Wigan before). I'm just wondering whether she may be related to Mary somehow.

1881

Again I can account for Mary Bratherton in 1881. She is living at 9 Warrington Road, Pemberton, Lancashire with her children as her husband had died.
Class: RG11; Piece: 3779; Folio: 27; Page: 1; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341904.

1891

In 1891 she is living at 74, Soho Street, Newtown, Wigan, Lancashire with some of her children.

Class: RG12; Piece: 3063; Folio 113; Page 12; GSU roll: 6098173.

1901?

I cannot find her on the 1901 census but she died in 1902 in the workhouse in Wigan.

As I said, I'd love to find her in 1841 or find a clue as to who her parents were or the connection with Ann Coleburn.

[~~Lesley~~]

There's also something else which keeps niggling at me,

There is a Mary Coleburn baptised about 1835 in Liverpool St Anthony's to John Coleman and Ann Bryan.

I keep coming back to what I think is John's (b. abt 1811 Ireland) 1841 census records in Woodstock Street Liverpool (John Coulbourn) where he is listed as a bricklayer and I keep thinking there may be a connection.

There is a 6 year old Mary Coulbourn living there at the time.

Class: HO107; Piece 564; Book: 12; Civil Parish: Liverpool; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 23; Folio: 14; Page: 21; Line: 16; GSU roll: 438716.

Also if you follow the family through the census records, if I've got the right John (which I may not have done) he seems to end up in Hindley with some of the other children.

[clematised]

Class: RG9; Piece: 2678; Folio: 7; Page: 8; GSU roll: 543011

This Mary Colborn is a servant with an Ann Foster Publican in Liverpool right age 1861 Census Parish of St Micheal,reg district St Thomas

Edna

[~~Lesley~~]

Thank you Edna, I had forgotten about her. I wasn't sure whether it is her or not as she seems to be living back in Liverpool. I suppose I need to identify if there is more than one Mary Coleburn of the same age from Liverpool (with various spellings) and track all of them,

[Darksecretz]

1841:

- Ancestry.co.uk (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=0&gss=angs-g&gsfn=mary&gsln=coulb***&rg_81004010__date=1835&msbpn=92187&msbpn__ftp=Liverpool%2c+Lancashire%2c+England&sbo=0&rs_81004010__date=2&ne=3&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=5898961&recoff=1+2&db=uki1841&indiv=1)

Class: HO107; Piece 564; Book: 12; Civil Parish: Liverpool; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 23; Folio: 14; Page: 21; Line: 16; GSU roll: 438716.

not exactly a best fit.. as mothers name is ANN but the father JOHN is a brickmaker..

[clematised]

I have been looking for the last couple of hours at the Hampson names of John and Mary and found several possibilities but I have just found a couple who have this name transcribed but someone has had a note made to say Thompson but on looking at the actual record in Wigan the couple are on the same page as other Hampsons/Thompsons (ink splodge) but also on the same page are Cowburns 1881 Class: RG11; Piece: 3772; Folio: 12; Page: 18; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341902. John and Ann Cowburn with children also other Cowburn with Hampson/Thompson.

Can someone take a look at it.

Edna

[~~Lesley~~]

Hi Julie,

That's the family I've been looking at as well. So it's not just me that's noticed them :) However, a you say it's not the best fit.

The marriage certificate with mother Mary Coleburn brickmaker is confusing me.

I wish I could find Mary in 1841 and 1861 and know it is her for definite.

I've found this 1861 census with John Coleburn interesting.

Class: RG9; Piece: 2648; Folio: 59; Page: 36; GSU roll: 543005

He is in Liscard over the water from Liverpool. He appears to be the same age as the one as in the 1841 census. He's got a daughter called Ann who is the same age as Ann in the 1871 census.

I think this is the same Colebourne family that end up in Hindley in 1871 with his son Owen.

Class: RG10; Piece: 3890; Folio: 24; Page: 44; GSU roll: 842039.

Thank you Edna, that is very interesting too. It does look like Hampson to me too. I wonder if there is a connection.

[Darksecretz]

lesley..

have you tracked this john/ann family thru the census??

sorry... brain drain I see you have already looked at this...

[~~Lesley~~]

Julie, I don't think I've found them on every census yet. The change of spelling is a nightmare for me and I don't know if its the same family for certain.

I can't remember finding them on 1851, at least I haven't saved the record.

[Darksecretz]

have just found this

- Ancestry.co.uk (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=0&gss=angs-g&gsfn=mary&gsln=coulb*****&rg_81004010__date=1835&msbpn=92187&msbpn__ftp=Liverpool%2c+Lancashire%2c+England&_80008000=mary&sbo=0&rs_81004010__date=2&ne=3&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&h=6002040&recoff=1+2&db=uki1841&indiv=1)

Edna,

did you find a marriage for the Hampsons? john n mary that is

[clematised]

No I was busy trying to find a link via the census

Edna

[clematised]

John Hampson
1850
Oct-Nov-Dec
Wigan
Greater Manchester, Lancashire
Volume: 21
Page: 752

There are seveal on the page but one is a Mary Ann Whitley

still no connection though

Edna

[~~Lesley~~]

wonder if Ann got married in Wigan after the 1871 census?

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1879
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
COLEBURN Ann LARGE Arthur St. John,Pemberton Wigan & Leigh C22/4/62

[~~Lesley~~]

There is an Ann Large born about 1849 in Liverpool at 133 Warrington Road, Pemberton, on the 1881 census so that could be her marriage.

Class: RG11; Piece: 3779; Folio: 5; Page: 3; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341904.

[clematised]

In all these marriages at Wigan of John Hampson there was a person on the list called Mary
1851 SepQ v21p682
1853 ? v8p7
1860 JunQ v8c p79

Edna

[~~Lesley~~]

Thanks Edna :)

[~~Lesley~~]

Thank you to everyone that has helped so far..... :clap: Julie and Edna, you've been stars!

..........ok another brick wall for anyone who cares to help me knock it down.

I'm trying to find the Hilton family from Upholland, Lancashire on the 1841 census, particularly Peter Hilton who is the father. He was born about 1806/7/8 and a sawyer, carpenter, joiner by trade. I think his wife may have been called Ellen but she may have died before 1841.

Mary Hilton is his daughter. The earliest I can trace her is 1851

Class: HO107; Piece: 2201; Folio: 49; Page: 10; GSU roll: 87211.

She's living with the Benson family in Mill Lane, she will marry Nathan Benson in 1857. I think John Benson is his brother. It looks as though John married Elizabeth Hilton but I don't know who she is.

Mary Hilton is also living with Henry Hilton who is 23 and who I suspect is connected to Mary (but perhaps it could be Elizabeth). I think he is listed as a coal miner.

Meanwhile in 1851, her father Peter Hilton is living with the Melling family in Upholland. 24 year old Edward Hilton is living with him. He is also a sawyer.

Class: HO107; Piece: 2201; Folio: 107; Page: 23; GSU roll: 87211.

I can account for Mary Hilton and her father on subsequent census records but I don't know what happens to Edward and Henry after 1851.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Elaine ..Spain]

Could this one be the Hilton children, possibly living with grandparents?

HO107; Piece 522; Book: 19; Civil Parish: Wigan; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 2; Folio: 24; Page: 6; Line: 1
- Ancestry.co.uk (http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&gsfn=edward&gsln=&sx=&f1=&f2=&f3=&f18=&rg_81004011__date=1827&rs_81004011__date=2&_82004011=&_82004013=&f7=&f20=&f8=&f9=&gskw=upholland&prox=1&db=uki1841&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=5&h=5175157&recoff=1+13)

[~~Lesley~~]

actually Elaine, it could be 2 of them (possibly) Edward and Henry.....and there's even an Elizabeth lol

Thank you - it's something to ponder on.

If they are siblings of Mary and not cousins, I wonder where she is and indeed her father. Wonder why they didn't stay together.

[~~Lesley~~]

to be honest I always hoped that Henry Hilton was Peter Hilton's father after I found this:

Baptism: 24 May 1807 St Thomas the Martyr, Up Holland, Lancashire, England
Peter Hilton - Son of Henry Hilton
Abode: UpHolland
Occupation: Carpenter
Register: Baptisms 1789 - 1812, Page 58, Entry 28 Source: LDS Film 1657546

There's no real proof though unfortunately.

[Elaine ..Spain]

Not having much luck find Mary and father Peter in 1841.

[~~Lesley~~]

Thank you Elaine, nor did I. I thought a second pair of eyes may have helped.

Thanks again...and hope you have a lovely evening.

[Chris in Sussex]

Going back to the Coleburns....

"She married in Wigan in May 1864 and she listed her parent as Mary Coleburn whose occupation was brickmaker."

Was that a certificate from the GRO? If so maybe it was a mistake made when the copy was sent to them. It might be worth having a look at the parish record to see what that says, assuming it was a church wedding.

Good luck

Chris

[~~Lesley~~]

Thanks Chris, I think I got it from the local record office rather than the GRO but I will try and check the marriage records to double check. Many thanks

[~~Lesley~~]

Just wanted to thank everyone that has helped me this week. You've all been brilliant! :clap: