Opinions of any sort on this photo, please! [Archive]

Merry Monty Montgomery

09-11-07, 11:45

I have recently made contact with a new fourth cousin.

He has sent me this image which he says is on glass. It is of the husband of one of our mutual relatives and his great-grandfather. At least we think that's who it is!!

So......age? Date? Comments about appearance and potential social standing..... Any other things noted..........?? Please keep your comments coming!!

(I'm keeping quiet! lol)

8280

samesizedfeet

09-11-07, 11:52

brings Oscar Wilde to mind for me

Very dashing

although he could have straightened out his waistcoat when he sat down

Rachel Scand

09-11-07, 11:56

Looks like Charles Grodin :)

Snowdrops in Bloom

09-11-07, 12:03

I think he looks ill at ease, although this could be the postion he's sitting in rather than anything else.

I think the clothes are his, ie: not borrowed from the photographer for the photo, as the tie pin is an accessory I don't think a photographer would bother to supply.

He looks actually like a surly teenager who's sitting there because he's been told to and his hair looks like it's been given a comb through with water cause it was sticking up.

No dates 'cos I'm useless with them - sorry.

Merry Monty Montgomery

09-11-07, 17:24

So, age?? Late teens or older???

brenmac

09-11-07, 18:33

about 20 paintings on glass are worth something, 1880,s brenda xxx

samesizedfeet

09-11-07, 18:55

I'd say 20s as he doesn't look stifled or uncomfortable in what he's wearing.

You can tell the younger ones have been dressed up in something they don't wear often and they look really ill at ease

Merry Monty Montgomery

09-11-07, 19:02

Ok, so are we agreed on age, say 22-26 ish?

I notice the image is in reverse.

samesizedfeet

09-11-07, 19:26

you get that quite often with glass plates as people tend to put them surface down to make a print and it should be surface up

Jill on the A272

09-11-07, 19:37

Is this the sort that comes in a little box with a velvet lined lid? (I have one from c1879 about 2x3 inches)

Dead Rellies

09-11-07, 20:09

it looks like a very crisp image, has it been touched up or modified ??

Just Barbara

09-11-07, 20:13

I think this may be a glass plate negative which would explain the good image, your chap is wearing a sack coat, with just the top buttoned which was fashionable about 1879, I think he may be late 1870s or early 1880s.

Merry Monty Montgomery

09-11-07, 20:46

If it was late 1870's then he would be 30. I thought the clothing looked earlier, but I'm no expert!

All my ambrotype photos are in reverse. If this is an ambrotype, it looks like it's been taken out of it's box....with that ring round it..........If it's an ambrotype mightn't it be earlier? (she said, hopefully!)

Unfortunately I'm not in contact with the owner of the photo, only with the owner of the copy!!

Norfolk Marsh Gal

09-11-07, 21:26

I would say 1880 ish does it come from a locket or small oval photo, just wondering about that oval shape?

Merry Monty Montgomery

09-11-07, 21:37

I don't know how big the original is :o

If it's as late as that, then I think the sitter must be someone other than the person it's supposed to be!

Norfolk Marsh Gal

09-11-07, 21:42

As others have said he looks a bit like Oscar Wilde, think Oscar Wilde was born mid 1850s and died 1900, I have a photo of his grave in Paris, a great big hulking deco flying angel! if i remember right

Norfolk Marsh Gal

09-11-07, 21:53

Then again i think the way Oscar Wilde dressed kind of retro, like Lord Byronish?

Jacob Epstien - think he carved the tomb?

niftynannie

09-11-07, 23:14

Had a go a taking the black ring away

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/sue21757/Attwood-1.jpg

Olde Crone Holden

09-11-07, 23:29

I have a carte de visite, which dates to 1860s, and the man (my 2 x GGF) is wearing a very similar cut away coat, rather short, and a cravat. Unfortunately he is wearing a hat so I can't judge his hairstyle.

The hairstyle (in your pic) is rather Oscar Wildish - do we know if Oscar Wilde followed hair fashions, or did he just have an old-fashioned hairstyle, lol.

OC

Rachel Scand

09-11-07, 23:34

The way his hair sticks out at the sides above his ears could indicate that he's been wearing a hat ... not that this helps in any way, merely an observation.

(still think it's Charles Grodin)

Wonder if the pattern on the table cloth might be a way of dating it ?

Olde Crone Holden

09-11-07, 23:41

Rachel

Oh, well spotted! And that would make it a pork pie hat, which pushes it later rather than earlier, ho hum.

OC

Rachel Scand

10-11-07, 00:01

a quick enlargement ... but not fiddled with too much
Looks as if his hair is combed forwards ....

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o228/rachelscand/Merrypiccrop.jpg

Guinevere

10-11-07, 07:23

The clothes seem too tight for him and a bit short in the sleeves so, if they are his, I'd say he would have bought them to fit but has had another growth spurt since. This would put him in his late teens/early 20s.

I'm not convinced that they aren't a borrowed outfit.

The jacket is velvet I'd say.

Just Barbara

10-11-07, 10:37

I honestly think the clothes are his, now I also at first thought it was an earlier image, and glass plate negatives were invented in 1851, and I agree he looks like he has helmet hair (from wearing a hat),.........hum now I'm not sure.......... where's Don?

Olde Crone Holden

10-11-07, 16:14

What's that splodge on his shoulder (our right)? It isn't the tip of a pigtail, is it? Cos if so, that pushes it right back again in time.

OC

Rachel Scand

10-11-07, 16:28

What's that splodge on his shoulder (our right)? It isn't the tip of a pigtail, is it? Cos if so, that pushes it right back again in time.OC

Impossible to tell ... very likely just a splodge :confused:

I was hoping the collar on the jacket might show up better ....

Jill on the A272

10-11-07, 16:50

They use to use a rest on a stand behind the neck to keep the head still because of the long exposure time, the splodge might be the edge of one of these.

Just Barbara

10-11-07, 17:16

Good observation Jill, you're right it is probably the edge of the neck rest....

Merry Monty Montgomery

10-11-07, 17:32

They use to use a rest on a stand behind the neck to keep the head still because of the long exposure time, the splodge might be the edge of one of these.

Yes, and they stopped using them when exposures got shorter.

Does anyone know when that was?? (1860's or 1870's??) It would help us to know, wouldn't it!

He was a man of vastly changing occupations and eventually he disappeared...(maybe he's still alive! pmsl...in which case he's about 163-ish!)

Merry Monty Montgomery

10-11-07, 17:34

Doesn't you think his body looks like that of someone much older? His shoulders and upper arms look quite weak, yet round his waist he isn't skinny is he? He looks healthy enough in the face though!

Just Barbara

10-11-07, 18:03

Early photograph exposures could be minutes rather than seconds, try to stay absolutely still without blinking for 40 seconds................Merry I know you have many early photos, I am now torn..............could he be the end of the 1860s?

Merry Monty Montgomery

10-11-07, 18:21

The man it's supposed to be was born in about 1844 in Clutton, Somerset.

He was the son of a schoolmaster. His parents died when he was about 10 and by the following census (1861) he was an errand boy in Wiltshire

By 1871 he had married and had moved to Wales where he was coalmining.

By 1878 they had moved to Bristol (his wife was from Bristol) and he registered the birth of a daughter (my connection's grandmother). He says he's an insurance agent.

1881 wife said she was married, but he is missing. Two children are in the workhouse.

1891 wife said she was married, but he is missing.

1895 wife marries someone else (says she's a widow). No death for 1st husband anywhere I can see.

1896 the girl born in 1878 marries and says her father is dec'd and his occ was a traveller.

The daughter used to tell her grandson (my contact) that her father was a superintendent at an Insurance Company in Bristol. She never said he vanished or anything!! lol

Just Barbara

10-11-07, 19:15

Well that would put your chap about 1869 or 70, if not well off, in clothing that might be slightly out of fashion, but his tie pin and cravat says he was a bit of a dandy............?

Merry Monty Montgomery

10-11-07, 19:37

That's what I though. Maybe why he didn't get on in coal mining!

Just Barbara

10-11-07, 19:54

Wonder if that's why he ran away, didn't like responsibility.

Merry Monty Montgomery

10-11-07, 21:00

I wish I knew where he went :(

Jessbowbag

10-11-07, 22:16

Looks to me like his hiar is combed forward to cover a high forehead ( that what my OH calls his rapidly receding hairline)

Merry Monty Montgomery

10-11-07, 22:25

lol Jess....My OH's high forehead reaches the back of his head!!

Olde Crone Holden

11-11-07, 01:48

Well, that makes me spot on with the date then! *pats self on back*.

(1860s) Late teens, early 20s, still got that babyfaced look and a bit petulant with it. Doesn't surprise me a bit that he didnt like coal mining or married life!

Hiding out in London under an assumed name, I'll bet. Or gone abroad to seek his fortune.

OC

Rachel Scand

11-11-07, 14:08

Hope you don't mind if I butt in with this pic of mine ....
It's a huge enlargement of part of a small photo taken abt 1900 and I'd like an opinion on his neckwear .... would it be classed as a cravat ??? :confused:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o228/rachelscand/Williamenlarged.jpg

Just Barbara

11-11-07, 17:38

I THINK that is a tie , he has tied it like a cravat........

Merry Monty Montgomery

11-11-07, 17:56

I was going to type a long paragraph, but it's much easier to say I agree with Barbara!! lol

He looks a nice chap!

Olde Crone Holden

11-11-07, 18:12

As he is wearing a flat cap, badge of the working man, I would say it is a neckerchief, which was worn knotted like a tie.

OC

Rachel Scand

11-11-07, 18:21

ooer ... it's thick one side of his neck and thin the other :confused::D

was he trying to be posh for his photo ? .... no can't be that because he's wearing an old cardie with stuff in the pockets ... s'cuse me while I discuss this with myself !!!! :confused: hmmmmm

Rachel Scand

11-11-07, 18:35

hello OC
I was trying to find a decent version of the pic ... I seem to have dozens of it

here's one ...

He was a domestic coachman in Scotland and later in England .. he'd have been abt 70 when this was taken ... I suppose it could have been a 'left over' from his uniform

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o228/rachelscand/cottagecroppedweb.jpg

Rachel Scand

11-11-07, 18:48

this is the only other one I have of him .....
thought it might be the same neck 'arrangement' ....
doh ! it's not .... :confused:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o228/rachelscand/William.jpg

Just Barbara

11-11-07, 20:01

I bet he always wore a cravat when he was "on duty" and he got to like it, see how similar it was to his later neck tie.......

Rachel Scand

11-11-07, 20:57

ah ... you mean it was a fashion statement !! :(:D:)

Olde Crone Holden

11-11-07, 23:10

My Scottish Grandad, a working class man, always wore a "muffler" which was really a thin bit of material - not a tie - which he wore knotted round his neck.

For high days and holidays it was the same arrangement, but the muffler was silk. All the men wore them.

A cravat is a much fuller thing and is a thin strip of material with thicker, scarf like ends. (A short tie).

OC