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MicaDsGirl
03-05-13, 00:36
I have brought this to other people and no one has ever been able to help me.

I am looking for an information on Amelia Brush. All I can tell you about Amelia is that she married a man named William Leonard and had a child named George Leonard in 1885-1887. All were born and raised in New York from what I understand. I have absolutely no birth dates for Amelia or William. I have marriage and death certificates for their son Geroge which is where I got the names of his parents. Please note that Amelia is also listed as Ann on one of the forms.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

kylejustin
03-05-13, 06:40
what about census records?

margaretmarch
03-05-13, 07:32
How about this one in 1880 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=6742&iid=4242234-00296&fn=Amelia+M.&ln=Brush&st=r&ssrc=&pid=39072643

Amelia M. Brush
Age: 21
Birth Year: abt 1859
Birthplace: New York
Home in 1880: New York City, New York, New York
Race: White
Gender: Female
Relation to Head of House: Daughter
Marital Status: Single
Father's Name: Martin H. Brush
Father's Birthplace: New York
Mother's Name: Louise H. Brush
Mother's Birthplace: New York


Or this one in 1870 http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=7163&iid=4274934_00352&fn=Amelia&ln=Brush&st=r&ssrc=&pid=23833188

Amelia Brush
Age in 1870: 8
Birth Year: abt 1862
Birthplace: New York
Home in 1870: New York Ward 7 District 9, New York, New York
Race: White
Gender: Female
Post Office: New York City

What is the exact date of George's birth?

Margaret

Darksecretz
03-05-13, 08:01
might be that we won't get any replies at the moment, as New Jersey is -4/5 hours from us, [thats if NJ stands for New Jersey!!, though I can't think of much else that it could be!]

margaretmarch
03-05-13, 08:31
might be that we won't get any replies at the moment, as New Jersey is -4/5 hours from us, [thats if NJ stands for New Jersey!!, though I can't think of much else that it could be!]

No I was thinking that just now.

Margaret

Darksecretz
03-05-13, 08:44
No I was thinking that just now.

Margaret

:smilee:

MicaDsGirl
03-05-13, 18:03
Thank you for the replies. I do not have an exact birthdate for George - it was not listed on his death certificate. Any census reports I have are after George married his wife Ellen. When I get home (as I am currently at work) I can upload (if that is allowed) the 2 documents I have in my possession.

The 1862 birth date is the 1870 census listed above seems the most likely since George was born between 1885 and 1887.

NJ does in fact stand for New Jersey ;D

Thank you for everything!

margaretmarch
03-05-13, 20:07
Thank you for the replies. I do not have an exact birthdate for George - it was not listed on his death certificate. Any census reports I have are after George married his wife Ellen. When I get home (as I am currently at work) I can upload (if that is allowed) the 2 documents I have in my possession.

The 1862 birth date is the 1870 census listed above seems the most likely since George was born between 1885 and 1887.

NJ does in fact stand for New Jersey ;D

Thank you for everything!

If you do not have George's birth certificate how do you know his parents' names? If they are given on his death certificate how sure can you be that they are correct/accurate?

You can upload to here but it's best to use something like Photobucket where you can then give the link to the image -attachments to posts are often too small to read.

Bear in mind any copyright restrictions on the documents you have.

For the two Amelia Brush records either of them would be right because they both were of childbearing age in 1885-1887.

Margaret

MicaDsGirl
04-05-13, 00:09
If you do not have George's birth certificate how do you know his parents' names? If they are given on his death certificate how sure can you be that they are correct/accurate?

You can upload to here but it's best to use something like Photobucket where you can then give the link to the image -attachments to posts are often too small to read.

Bear in mind any copyright restrictions on the documents you have.

For the two Amelia Brush records either of them would be right because they both were of childbearing age in 1885-1887.

Margaret

I have George's marriage and death certificate - both of which lists parents names although his mother is referred to as Amelia on one and Ann on the other.

I have the certificates saved as .pdf files so Photobucket won't work but I will figure something out.

vera2013
04-05-13, 06:14
I have seen the marriage and death cert for George on a tree on Ancestry. That is most likely yours Not sure if an Ancestry link will work but would not like to try this with someone else's tree wihout permission.

I note the 1892 census which has George orphaned at that time. Do you know this to be definitely your George?

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=3212&iid=41121_B125457-00307&fn=George&ln=Leonard&st=r&ssrc=&pid=2806364

The 1890 Federal census has not survived but there was a Police Census for 1890 which covered some areas. Can't see William and Amelia with George on it but it did not cover all areas.

Vera

PhotoFamily
04-05-13, 06:25
Mica - not all of us are using photobucket, so posting details, or links to online pages (e.g., ancestry or familysearch) is useful, too.

Ok, just found the records you have ancestry.

I notice that the marriage record shows that they were married at St John's church (I think?), and the person performing the ceremony was James H M????, Catholic Priest. Have you tried contacting the diocese or church?

margaretmarch
04-05-13, 09:08
I have George's marriage and death certificate - both of which lists parents names although his mother is referred to as Amelia on one and Ann on the other.

I have the certificates saved as .pdf files so Photobucket won't work but I will figure something out.

If you can take a screenshot of the pdf docs that should then save as a jpeg image for photobucket.

Margaret

margaretmarch
04-05-13, 09:14
I have seen the marriage and death cert for George on a tree on Ancestry. That is most likely yours Not sure if an Ancestry link will work but would not like to try this with someone else's tree wihout permission.

I note the 1892 census which has George orphaned at that time. Do you know this to be definitely your George?

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=3212&iid=41121_B125457-00307&fn=George&ln=Leonard&st=r&ssrc=&pid=2806364

The 1890 Federal census has not survived but there was a Police Census for 1890 which covered some areas. Can't see William and Amelia with George on it but it did not cover all areas.

Vera

Found this http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2010/03/walkabout-the-l-1/ about St John's Asylum which is the address for the 1892 census record - makes sad reading.

Might be worth pursuing whether any admission records/files are still kept and if they can be accessed.

Margaret

PS the article mentions a mother visiting her son so not all the children were orphans just in there because they couldn't be cared for at home - maybe one parent dead.

Darksecretz
04-05-13, 09:58
Mica,

do you have Williams Death cert at all?

Name: William Leonard
Birth Date: abt 1860
Age: 36
Death Date: 15 Dec 1896
Death Place: New York, New York
Certificate Number: 40249

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=nycdeaths&h=173729&ti=5538&indiv=try&gss=pt&ssrc=pt_t27053992_p12182546497_kpidz0q3d1218254649 7z0q26pgz0q3d32768z0q26pgplz0q3dpid

it might help and give some pointers as to where/what Amelia is living/doing etc...

After seeing the Marriage & Death Certs for George, I would think it highly likely that if Ellen was giving the details of Georges death then she got muddled or couldn't remember exactly what his mothers name was.. which is why it said ANN and not AMELIA. ...yet on his marriage cert, it clearly states Amelia as his mother and William as his father.

Darksecretz
04-05-13, 09:59
If you can take a screenshot of the pdf docs that should then save as a jpeg image for photobucket.

Margaret

here you go Margaret, if you click on the link it'll take you to the tree and then you can have a look at the documents :)

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/27053992/person/1980899886

margaretmarch
04-05-13, 10:31
here you go Margaret, if you click on the link it'll take you to the tree and then you can have a look at the documents :)

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/27053992/person/1980899886

Thanks for that but I notice that tree is not Mica's although it does have some stuff she has uploaded - they have been copied by that tree owner.

I think Mica's tree is private.

Margaret

margaretmarch
04-05-13, 10:40
This draft card may be relevant http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=View&r=5538&dbid=6482&iid=NY-1766251-4130&fn=George+Francis&ln=Leonard&st=r&ssrc=&pid=8931739

It gives a name of George Francis Leonard born 20 March 1885 wife Helen and gives the same address as that for the marriage.

Margaret

PS see that this record has been saved to the tree but as evidence of residence rather than anything else.

PPs the tree does not reflect the correct dob for George nor his full name.

vera2013
04-05-13, 18:04
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MSN8-KYQ

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12118-49590-6?cc=1325221&wc=MMPJ-7W6:n1658942592



Found this on FS but not sure if it is the same George as 1892 as dob March 1883 and father b Ireland

Vera

MicaDsGirl
04-05-13, 18:34
For the record, these are the links to my 2 documents :
George's Death Certificate: http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/11902447/person/12559055866/media/1?pgnum=1&pg=0&pgpl=pid%7cpgNum


George & Ellen's Marriage Certificate: http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/11902447/person/12559055866/media/2?pgnum=1&pg=0&pgpl=pid%7cpgNum


I have seen the 1892 census where a George Leonard is listed in an orphange - I am still researching this possibility. I know that there was a fire that was suffered there - may reach out to see if they have any records. I have never seen a Police Census - do you know where I could find that?


I am not sure if the church is St. James or St. Johns - as in Manhattan it could be any!


I have no death certificate for William at all - I will take a look at what Darksecretz posted although I can not access any information on the ancestry.co.uk sites.


Darksecretz - you said you saw my information on someone else's tree? Can you provide me the name of that person? There should only be one other person with this information linked and she is a family member working on her tree.


I will delve into all you have posted - I greatly appreciate your help. George has remained quite the enigma to my family, and his parents even more so because he never spoke of them. According to family lore, there was some sort of disagreement and George spent many years distanced from his mother - when he finally went back to see her she had already passed and he was unaware.

vera2013
04-05-13, 18:49
Hello

I was able to access the 1890 Police Census via Ancestry with subscription. I think you can also access some info from the Family Search site.

https://www.familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/1890_police_census_for_NYC,_NY

Vera

margaretmarch
04-05-13, 19:15
Hello

I was able to access the 1890 Police Census via Ancestry with subscription. I think you can also access some info from the Family Search site.

https://www.familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/1890_police_census_for_NYC,_NY

Vera

Doesn't sound as though any information on this census will be easily accessed.

Margaret

margaretmarch
04-05-13, 19:16
For the record, these are the links to my 2 documents :
George's Death Certificate: http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/11902447/person/12559055866/media/1?pgnum=1&pg=0&pgpl=pid%7cpgNum


George & Ellen's Marriage Certificate: http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/11902447/person/12559055866/media/2?pgnum=1&pg=0&pgpl=pid%7cpgNum


I have seen the 1892 census where a George Leonard is listed in an orphange - I am still researching this possibility. I know that there was a fire that was suffered there - may reach out to see if they have any records. I have never seen a Police Census - do you know where I could find that?


I am not sure if the church is St. James or St. Johns - as in Manhattan it could be any!


I have no death certificate for William at all - I will take a look at what Darksecretz posted although I can not access any information on the ancestry.co.uk sites.


Darksecretz - you said you saw my information on someone else's tree? Can you provide me the name of that person? There should only be one other person with this information linked and she is a family member working on her tree.


I will delve into all you have posted - I greatly appreciate your help. George has remained quite the enigma to my family, and his parents even more so because he never spoke of them. According to family lore, there was some sort of disagreement and George spent many years distanced from his mother - when he finally went back to see her she had already passed and he was unaware.

The tree in question is at the link posted (http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/27053992/person/1980899886) and belongs to Lois Stankowitz - she has copied your documents into her tree.

You should be able to order the death certificate for William from the information given in Darksecretz post through the New York records office - I don't know how you do that but I'm sure someone on here will come along and explain the procedure if you don't know.

Margaret

MicaDsGirl
04-05-13, 21:29
Ah Lois is fine - she is a cousin through marriage! She is the only other person that should have my documents.

I have ordered other birth and death certificates so I will have to see what happens!

Thanks!

PhotoFamily
04-05-13, 22:50
There is a "St John the Baptist" Catholic church in Manhattan - I thought the address looked close to the one that the priest listed.

Doesn't hurt to ask them if they have the record. Even tho the civil record doesn't have parents' names, the parish may have collected that information. You could also ask the other church in question (St James).

Another possibility is newspaper announcements. I looked briefly for an NY Times announcement of the marriage, but didn't see possibilities. There may have been a Manhattan-local paper that may have had an announcement. I don't know the resources, but a local genealogical &/or historical society may know.

Janet in Yorkshire
05-05-13, 08:15
Here is a link to an index for some NY newspapers - I've had a quick look, but nothing came up that made an impact. http://www.fultonhistory.com/dtSearch/dtisapi6.dll I don't know the geography of New York city, but if you can work out what borough/district is relevant to where your rellies lived, then you could try the local history department of the appropriate NY public library. A few months ago I contacted the Brooklyn Library about one of my families (census showed they lived in Brooklyn for several decades) and the response was marvellous. It was the librarian there who gave me the above link to the NY newspaper index, and then found a couple of references to items in the library archives. (I was very lucky in that my family took part in the busy social life of the affluent, but sometimes those less fortunate and at the other end of the social circle also feature in the papers.) I cannot praise enough the service the library gave. ....................... Jay

MicaDsGirl
05-05-13, 20:39
Based on the address the Priest listed as his residence I have figuered out that they were married at St. John the Evangelist Roman Catholic Church. I have emailed the Church to see if they could provide any information at all.